Are you suggesting that the only people who should have a strong opinion as to what we should aspire are those who have already completely achieved it?
The essence of Tango Argentino
- Thread starter jantango
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Are you suggesting that the only people who should have a strong opinion as to what we should aspire are those who have already completely achieved it?
Peaches
Well-Known Member
There are varying degrees of upright versus not.
Dancing forward is great...unless the guy is trying to achieve this by bending at the waist, or by hunching his shoulders forward (which pulls the chest away). Others do strange things to their posture.
IMO/IME, AT is danced standing upright and with good posture...and then the weight is brought forward over the feet. I think of carrying my weight somewhere between the arch of my foot and the balls. But regardless, I'm still standing upright, still "presenting my chest/center" to my partner to connect with. Even if I'm dancing in open embrace...I'm still upright and presenting my center to my partner for that connection.
There's only a battle for those who want/need to fight about it... Most tango dancers I know have all they can do to merely work on improving some aspect of their own dancing a smidge here and there, and don't have extra energy to put into "The Future Direction of Tango as a Worldwide Phenomenon". As long as some of my posts are, even I'm not interested in picking apart every sociological nuance unless I'm going to get a graduate degree out of it! (although that might make an interesting title for a thesis, no?)
As to the other part of your post I quoted... I wholeheartedly agree. Just about everything written on this forum gets hashed to death over and over and sometimes feels like the next sequel in a "Son of a Friday the 13th Halloween IV" movie. (although, who could tire of talking about shoes?
) If the thread interests you, post. If it doesn't, ignore it and create threads on the topics you wish to discuss.Oh man, if you think that's bad... I went to another class (different teacher) where they talked about "absorbing the free energy in the room and sharing it with your partner".
I was recently asked to submit an "Artist's Statement" to display with a few of my images... I declined. Most of the Artists' Statements I ever read sound pretentious, and frankly my art is supposed to make the statement without me having to explain it. If it doesn't, then I need to work on the art, not the text accompanying it!
They took the figures out of Figure skating, but they didn't change the name.
Not sure what my point is, but it was the first thing I thought of when I read your post...
sigh
Mario7
Member
Yes, You almost got it. What I'm saying is that if someone is criticizing your understanding of the dance and then you see that he/she dances like a robot with no sense of grace, well then you can discount some or all of their critique. Is that unreasonable?
opendoor
Forum Master
Re: discounts
Think the problem is the other way round: I know a some very good dancers and so-called TA-teachers here in europe that really have no sense for teaching and didactics... (and correction, criticizing)
Think the problem is the other way round: I know a some very good dancers and so-called TA-teachers here in europe that really have no sense for teaching and didactics... (and correction, criticizing)
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Yes.Yes, You almost got it. What I'm saying is that if someone is criticizing your understanding of the dance and then you see that he/she dances like a robot with no sense of grace, well then you can discount some or all of their critique. Is that unreasonable?
Among other things, it means that people who are just learning don't get to have a say. That's just b.s. Just because you haven't achieved something yet yourself doesn't mean you don't aspire to more; just because you haven't become a wonderful dancer doesn't mean you can't have preferences as to what you like and dislike.
And where is that mythical dividing line between "not worthy to be taken seriously" and "good enough to count?" And who gets to decide? And by what consensus to certain people get to decide?
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with you wishing to dance milonguero/apilado. I think its alovely way to dance and has all sorts of possibilities that do not exist in salon or nuevo. But if you exist in a social group who dance in other ways then you have to choose whether to adapt to other followers. But it is your choice and I respect that.
Heather2007
New Member
I think Mario was travelling more on the lines of "the blind leading the blind" rather than not allowing a beginner to have their say. And...I have seen/heard many a mouth being run on a fuel far better than that which is used to operate their feet.
I'm with Peaches on this one. Does one have to be a musician to say what they don't like about a particular song?
I always thought that was strange too, until I heard that in some countries, it is called artistic skating, rather than figure skating.
Mario7
Member
This has been taken totally out of context. The context was a dance discussion forum. I.E., If you were an artist and were trying to achieve something and were criticized for the way you were doing it...and subsequently you could see the art work of the person doing the criticizing...you would then know if you wanted to hear more or not. = What is so difficult to accept about this? It is common sense .. Isn't it? Or is there some political thing that I'm missing?
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Mario7 said:This has been taken totally out of context. The context was a dance discussion forum. I.E., If you were an artist and were trying to achieve something and were criticized for the way you were doing it...and subsequently you could see the art work of the person doing the criticizing...you would then know if you wanted to hear more or not. = What is so difficult to accept about this? It is common sense .. Isn't it? Or is there some political thing that I'm missing?
If I've misunderstood your point, I apologize. This is not political. (What the...???
) And I'm not so sure it was taken out of context. As to "what is so difficult to accept"...well, I disagree with your point. I don't think it's simply a case of common sense. I think there are legitimate, differing viewpoints...and I happen to have just one such legitimate, differing viewpoint. (I suppose you could make the argument that of course I think the differing viewpoints are legit, since I have one. That's valid.)
Yes, I suppose you could opt to completely throw out the opnions of people you deem to not be skilled enough, or whose style you don't care for or consider valid. That's your choice. But I still think it's foolish and disingenuous to go throwing out opinions just because you deem them unworthy to have such opinions. IMO, it's limiting and self-serving.
As an example from a totally different walk of life, my DH plays piano. Rather well. Not professional well, but pretty damn good. I played when I was little, quit when I was 8, and haven't touched the keys for 13 years. I cannot even come close to being able to do what DH can (and easily, that bastard!
). And...yet...he still asks me for advice when he's preparing a piece. Why, when I obiously don't have the qualifications to be opining on his playing? Well, because while I cannot play things, I can hear things in the music. Although I don't have the technical expertise, and often don't really even care for the things he's playing (we have somehwat divergent tastes), I do have opinions on what he's doing/not doing/bringing out/burying in the music. Yes, he could dismiss my criticism because I obviously am not worthy to offer an opnion...but he's continued to ask for years...because although I don't have the technical proficiency that he has, I still have good insights and opinions.Yes, it would be interesting to see videos of one another dancing. But I don't think they are needed in order to know where someone around here is coming from. If you spend time around here, reading people's posts over time, biases become apparent and it's possible to see the trajectory of people's AT "journey" over time. After a bit, a picture of someone as a dancer does emerge.
Maybe not. If we don't understand the essence of what you are trying to say (taking it out of context), you might consider that the message was not clear enough.This has been taken totally out of context. The context was a dance discussion forum. I.E., If you were an artist and were trying to achieve something and were criticized for the way you were doing it...and subsequently you could see the art work of the person doing the criticizing...you would then know if you wanted to hear more or not. = What is so difficult to accept about this? It is common sense .. Isn't it? Or is there some political thing that I'm missing?
In any case, I don't think it is obvious that a debate over technique can necessarily be decided by looking at a video of someone dancing. The video can show skill levels and possibly style preferences. From your prior posts, it's not clear that the video you referenced (from the other dancer) even related to whatever the technique debate was about.
To be clear, I'm not saying you are wrong, but more, based on what you posted, it's is not necessarily true (certainly not common sense). If it is to you, either some relevant info was omitted (by you), or we just have a difference of opinion. Nothing political, though.