The long-term solution is dual-role dancing?

[itwillhappen]

Personally, I don't like the way she's insinuating that it's the fault of the men

I don't think she's doing that.
She's just using her professional, analytical view of the facts to demand "free play in the middle lane" for her "true double-rolers." Whether you agree with her view is a matter of opinion, ultimately she's also representing her business and clients interests.

 

[pianistamediano]

I have seen cases where the women's list fills up in minutes, the men's list still has openings weeks or even months later. This would make a spot at the event more valuable for women, and less so for men. Maybe men don't value the event as much then, and are less committed about going.

I've reached that stage of life where followers are starting to reach out to me in anticipation of future events they'd like to attend — maybe I should don more sober, restrained attire, I have plenty of strands of silver hair to match it anyhow.

It's very true, and I think it's only compounded by the fact that in expectation of single follower spots running out minutes after registration open, followers rush to register, which perpetuates the problem. A veritable self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's no secret that there are more women than men in tango, so at some point in the past two decades, when gender (and then role later on) balance became a selling point (or even mandatory?) for closed events, the balance must have tipped at some point and continued to worsen, leading to this untenable situation.

Melina speaks truth in one of her blog posts, when she mentioned that men tend to have a better time at their local milongas because of the gender imbalance, so they're less likely to value events that much. However, I think she has a bit of a blind spot — she mostly perceives the most desirable/"best" leaders, as followers are wont to do, which is understandable, because they stand out the most.

 

[tango.suenio]

I've been a couple of times to a festival which is theoretically role-balanced, but nothing like it in reality. The explanation in that case was couples where the woman wants to dance all weekend and the man is there under protest. I discovered this when the coffee station ran out and I went to the bar to get one – I found a table full of theoretical tangueros with an afternoon's worth of beer glasses on the table.

Maybe I'm just broke, but that seems like a crazy spend for a leader slot that you're not even going to use. I'd take the free leader buy if it was available (I am broke)

• I have noticed more women tend to show up early (like at the night before pre-event, and the first night's milonga), and there are more women at the final milonga. In the middle milongas it is more gender balanced. That I have seen, if someone shows up the 2nd day (often a Saturday) and leaves before the Sunday night milonga, it is more often a man.

Guilty as charged. Next event I am doing a two-nighter and taking Friday off work but not planning on staying long into Sunday. I have to travel home! If I lived in the area it was being hosted I'd probably go each day of the event. But with added travel time it's just not feasible between my work and home responsibilities.

...you'd think she'd realise that most of the men who don't dance much, if at all, are obviously not that keen to be there in the first place. They've been persuaded to accompany their partners there.

Benchwarmers in the mall holding the purse. A tale as old as time. Has anyone ever been to a auto-garage themed tango space?

 

[TTanguero]

Maybe I'm just broke, but that seems like a crazy spend for a leader slot that you're not even going to use

I'm guessing the follower sees it as 0xprice for no chance of attending or 2xprice for a guaranteed place.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I found a table full of theoretical tangueros with an afternoon's worth of beer glasses on the table.

Slackers.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Speculation here: A leader who has been drinking too much is less able to lead, but a follower who has had too many can still follow

You'd be surprised.

 

[opendoor]

..Speculation here: A leader who has been drinking too much is less able to lead, but a follower who has had too many can still follow..

I would agree. In the following role, I give all control to the leader: I close my eyes and no longer see the floor. I switch off my ears and only feel the leader's musicality. I give up control of my legs and let the leader control them remotely (provided, he masters the projection technique).

 

[Miradamiranda]

Not for me. I can’t dance with any more than a glass or two during a long evening. My equilibrium suffers. It also suffers if I close my eyes. Sure I can “dance”, but the quality of the dance…

Speculation here: A leader who has been drinking too much is less able to lead, but a follower who has had too many can still follow -- maybe alcohol removes more leaders than followers from the pista?

 

[Be Present]

Not for me. I can’t dance with any more than a glass or two during a long evening. My equilibrium suffers. It also suffers if I close my eyes. Sure I can “dance”, but the quality of the dance…

Alcohol affects the cerebellum preferentially. That is the area that is responsible for smooth and coordinated movements. That’s why people who are drunk have a distinctive gait where they can’t coordinate the limbs as desired. Any amount of alcohol affects this region, but some may have a better tolerance for a bit of alcohol without significantly affecting balance or coordination.

Tango is so precise. I can’t imagine people drinking much and dancing tango.

 

[David_In_CA]

TTanguero said:
I found a table full of theoretical tangueros with an afternoon's worth of beer glasses on the table.

Slackers.

Yeah. Why only an afternoon's worth of beer glasses?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Yeah. Why only an afternoon's worth of beer glasses?

Depends how often they were refilled.

 

[Bailango]

to demand "free play in the middle lane" for her "true double-rolers."

What does that mean. Any two people irrespective of their gender are free to dance at most milongas. I have only heard of a very few milongas that actively discourage or deny same gender dancing. But is there a milonga that says you are disallowed to lead if you are a woman.

I don’t know who she is and what she said. Her primary clients are double rollers?

If you peek into the swing thread where @Steve Pastor has linked to clips of swing dancing in the old times, you will see women leading women as far back as 1920s or 1930s. In one clip from world fair, most dancers look to me like women partner pairs dancing swing.

 

[Bailango]

I've reached that stage of life where followers are starting to reach out to me in anticipation of future events they'd like to attend — maybe I should don more sober, restrained attire, I have plenty of strands of silver hair to match it anyhow.

What are you doing right now or what were you doing wrong before

It's very true, and I think it's only compounded by the fact that in expectation of single follower spots running out minutes after registration open, followers rush to register, which perpetuates the problem. A veritable self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes. I hear that constantly though I hardly attended 3 or 4 festivals/marathons/encuentros at max of any kind. My encuentros account is still to be opened.

It's no secret that there are more women than men in tango, so at some point in the past two decades, when gender (and then role later on) balance became a selling point (or even mandatory?) for closed events, the balance must have tipped at some point and continued to worsen, leading to this untenable situation.

If the follower registration fills up in opening minutes and leaders’ lags for weeks or months does it mean there are ten tango women/followers for every one leader or followers desire more to dance at festivals

Or may more men are switching to following since @itwillhappen has been evangelizing it and become very effective oh wait! He is evangelizing the opposite. Never mind.

Melina speaks truth in one of her blog posts, when she mentioned that men tend to have a better time at their local milongas because of the gender imbalance, so they're less likely to value events that much.

she should move to the metros/communitirs where it is not the same

I have been on tango hiatus to take a break from our leader heavy non cabaceo adhering milongas. I will go to a near by university practica tomorrow evening to dance tango after five weeks of absence.

However, I think she has a bit of a blind spot — she mostly perceives the most desirable/"best" leaders, as followers are wont to do, which is understandable, because they stand out the most.

Interesting. Question is what characteristics the most desireable/“best” leaders have. Is it strictly the dancing skills? In my experience leaders are far more discerning about the dancing skills than followers. Follower perception of leaders dancing is often skewed by the leader’s social status in the community or the milonga. Irrespective of his dancing skills or lack of.

 

[pianistamediano]

Interesting. Question is what characteristics the most desireable/“best” leaders have. Is it strictly the dancing skills? In my experience leaders are far more discerning about the dancing skills than followers. Follower perception of leaders dancing is often skewed by the leader’s social status in the community or the milonga. Irrespective of his dancing skills or lack of.

I leave the characteristics for others to decide, because it's such a nebulous thing. Rather, I observe behaviour: do they tend to look to him first? Do they orbit him? When he's at a milonga, are other leaders more ignored? Does he never seem to have trouble (or just much less trouble) finding a follower for the next tanda? Do followers like to dance multiple tandas with him? One or two things might not indicate, but together they are very telling of how desirable a leader is perceived to be.

What skews this is, as you say, social status. And professional dancers social dance in tango. Whether they're actually good or forgettable, they hold status as long as they're known. Unfortunately, us amateur (in the sense of non-professional) leaders are often compared to them and found lacking by amateur followers, which is honestly ridiculous, but that's life. I judge them too, but no one can judge me as harshly as myself.

If the follower registration fills up in opening minutes and leaders’ lags for weeks or months does it mean there are ten tango women/followers for every one leader or followers desire more to dance at festivals

No idea, really; the organisers know, but they're not telling. Although the gender balance isn't that bad even at the largest festivals without any restrictions on registrations, so I'd surmise that if we consider, say, the active (been to at least one milonga in the last month) tango population of Europe as a whole, there would be less than two followers to each leader.

What are you doing right now or what were you doing wrong before

I learned to hide my misanthropy and disdain for humanity better?

 

[itwillhappen]

What does that mean. Any two people irrespective of their gender are free to dance at most milongas.

The context in the blog post is balanced events with registration and their organizers behaviour.

What Melina calls "true double-role dancers" are, in my opinion, women who have this at the top of their priority list and feel a mission. Then they are willing to travel to her workshops, her tango teacher training, her double-role events. The explicit advantage that double-rolers can register unlimitedly between two waiting lists for leaders and followers makes perfect sense for her target group.

The decisive factor, as Melina also wrote in another blog post, are women in stable heteronormative tango relationships. They are privileged in many ways and have no problem registering for balanced events. If they complain that it looks like a "lesbian party" and direct their budget elsewhere, then it becomes often commercially difficult for organizers. It is simply difficult to court a new target group without alienating the old target group.

And as a dancer you can only have one thing at the top of your priority list, it's a question of where you expect your personal optimum to be.
I would see my partner, for example, as an "untrue double-role dancer". Of course she is also learning to lead (and so I am learning to follow a little bit). And she maintains her "sisterhood" network. But the crucial resources go into couple events or workshops. Whether we switch roles and whether she leads there is not at the top of "our" priority list.