The Money Commiserating Thread

[worddancer]

This is going to be a rough month for me because of the balance due for an Independent comp, and I have to buy a lessons package (to get the best rate).

I mean, it's all in the budget for the year. But ouch.

I have friends who "don't want to think about" how much they spend. But I'm one of those that have a spreadsheet.

 

[IndyLady]

I have a spreadsheet (I know, you didn't see that coming). One of the cells calculates the ratio of everything I've spent on dance to what I've paid so far for my house (down payment + mortgage). It is >1.

FWIW, although I have a monthly income statement, balance sheet, and tons of other ridiculously detailed analytics, I am more concerned about the calendar year as a whole than the individual months. Some months are profitable, others are financial disasters if viewed on their own out of context.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

One of the cells calculates the ratio of everything I've spent on dance to what I've paid so far for my house (down payment + mortgage). It is >1.

Yup. I don’t have a cell in my spreadsheet that specifically calculates that (although I’m about to), but I had already done the same comparison in my head, & reached the same result as you.

I’m split between “I really don’t want to think about this” and “I MUST pay close attention to this to make sure I’m still meeting all my other obligations.”

And it still amazes me how quickly my definition of “expensive” changed once I started dance lessons. Oh, a showcase? Only $115? Of course I’ll do it! Oh, a bigger showcase - only $295? Sure, why not! Oh, the heats for this in-studio event are only $25 each? That’s practically free! Sign me up for the maximum number offered! Oh, satin smooth shoes for only $169? That’s less than the cost of two lessons! I’ll buy them! And the overseas shipping is only $35? No problem! OMG this used dress is only $300? That’s like 5% of the cost of a “real” dress! Of course I’ll buy it! Oh, the mini-match is only $1200? Not bad at all! I’ll do it! And on and on and on....

But.

I still balk at the price tag for an in-person independent pro/am comp. I could buy A LOT - I mean, A WHOLE WHOLE LOT - of private lessons for the cost of a mere two-day comp. I know I’ll shell out for one of these at least once, to get the full experience. And I will try very hard not to cringe as I write the check. But in order to stay within my annual budget, I will have to choose between comps and everything else; and so far, it feels like I’ll get way more bang for my buck if I spend it on other stuff. I mean - it’s simple math. The amount I paid in 2020 for 5 pairs of shoes, 2 used comp dresses, 4 practice dresses, jewelry, makeup, tanning, 3 outside coaching sessions, 5 studio “fun nights,” and a mini-match - totaled less than the price of one pro/am comp.

 

[lucia_l]

Pro/Am comps are prodigiously expensive. And once you are going, the temptation to just do a little more is large. Depending on your studio, you will be asked to do "something" that is expensive and that doesn't fit your goal. If you, like most people, have finite resources You really need to think in advance about your overall goal and your specific goal and budget for this competition.

I'm waiting for the heat lists for Crystal Ball (Chicago) to come out so I can spend a few days alone deciding what to do. I'm pretty sure what I want to do is build competition experience, limit to fewer than a certain number of dances a day and do a balance of singles and multies of some sort. The limiting to fewer is partly financial. But it is also partly that at St. Louis, I could just feel the adrenaline up/downs were getting worse as I danced each group of events. Once I was out of control, I was out of control. Part of controlling that happens before the event (so much practice it doesn't matter.) But part of it is knowing my current limitations so I can do my best at the current comp given my current state. I need to learn to deal with the adrenaline, but doing one bazillion events a day is not the way to do that.

Plus, the extra one bazillion events just cost $$. It is not my goal to single handedly do so many events that my teacher can win "best teacher". So I'm definitely going to have to focus on my goals and not spend money on stuff that does not fit my goals.

 

[worddancer]

The amount I paid in 2020 for 5 pairs of shoes, 2 used comp dresses, 4 practice dresses, jewelry, makeup, tanning, 3 outside coaching sessions, 5 studio “fun nights,” and a mini-match - totaled less than the price of one pro/am comp.

The main reason to do a pro/am comp I think is to have goals. Which then raises the intensity of the lessons which apparently causes me to go on meltdowns. (To be fair, it's only my third live comp).

Another more experienced student was telling me that in the beginning you want to compete in everything, but eventually you get into a rhythm of what is a good pace for you and your wallet.

 

[Cal]

I’ve found that entering some of the online pre-recorded competitions in the Solo Stars category has given me that incentive of working towards a goal, and has been MUCH gentler on my bank account.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I still balk at the price tag for an in-person independent pro/am comp. I could buy A LOT - I mean, A WHOLE WHOLE LOT - of private lessons for the cost of a mere two-day comp. I know I’ll shell out for one of these at least once, to get the full experience. And I will try very hard not to cringe as I write the check. But in order to stay within my annual budget, I will have to choose between comps and everything else; and so far, it feels like I’ll get way more bang for my buck if I spend it on other stuff. I mean - it’s simple math. The amount I paid in 2020 for 5 pairs of shoes, 2 used comp dresses, 4 practice dresses, jewelry, makeup, tanning, 3 outside coaching sessions, 5 studio “fun nights,” and a mini-match - totaled less than the price of one pro/am comp.

I vaguely remember spending about the same amount on competitions as on lessons. I kind of saw competitions as the point of the activity, and lessons were just a way to do better at competitions. Seen that way, spending a lot more on lessons than on competitions didn't necessarily make sense.

 

[bry_dancer]

I kind of saw competitions as the point of the activity, and lessons were just a way to do better at competitions.

I also see comps as kind of the goal even though they are crazy expensive otherwise why spend the time learning to put your head or arm in just the right position or step in CBM or have perfect Cuban motion.

At a social dance function that stuff does not really matter and if you want to social dance there are much cheaper and more efficient ways to learn it.

 

[worddancer]

I also see comps as kind of the goal

I didn't compete for the first year and a half, and just did one private lesson a week. It was perfect for just learning how to dance and social dance.

Also so much nicer on the wallet!

 

[IndyLady]

I also see comps as kind of the goal even though they are crazy expensive otherwise why spend the time learning to put your head or arm in just the right position or step in CBM or have perfect Cuban motion.

At a social dance function that stuff does not really matter and if you want to social dance there are much cheaper and more efficient ways to learn it.

Let's not start the "social dancers don't have or need technique" bashing again, shall we? Or else move this tired argument to another thread. Truth be told, I know comp dancers who just seem to enjoy the experience and aren't overly concerned with technical things. It cuts both ways.

That said, I totally agree with PNP, your definition of "expensive" gets really skewed after a while. "$25 is almost free" struck a chord/nerve (take your pick) with me.

I've been around long enough and dabbled in enough stuff that I'm resigned to the costs of this endeavor. One of my biggest frustrations has always been the taboo around talking about it. I've been wrist-slapped a few times (not recently) at the studio for making cracks about it, or otherwise not being hush hush. I swear, it's apparently OK to discuss the gory details of medical procedures and injuries, but heaven forbid we have honest discourse about money. I'm not going to lure my friends* in for two free or cheap lessons for the "guest program" just for them to be blindsided when they find out how much it really costs.

*Hypothetical friends outside the dance studio, of which I don't really have any.

 

[worddancer]

One of my biggest frustrations has always been the taboo around talking about it.

Yeah I find it irritating. Like when I was asking people about how much indie comps cost, and students would hedge. When another student asks me how much Emerald cost I just flat out told the number.

Information is power.

 

[lucia_l]

worddancer,
Way back pre-covid, an youngish student at my studio asked about costs to compete. By youngish, I mean a few years out of university, but with a degree that means she has a good job. I said cost of a destination vacation. I also gave her a number from a previous comp where I'd done one style on one day.

Might be able to be a less expensive vacation (week at Disney) or a more expensive vacation (week long tour of Caribean on a pricey cruise line in deluxe cabin), but a vacation. Heck, if you go wild it could be the price of a small economy car.

No matter what type of job you landed, either is a lot for a person who is less than 5 years out of college. It's a lot for others too, but when you are further out, you have better knowledge of your baseline income, how much it might continue to rise and so on.

Larinda posting price lists was nice because I think most people can assume a "retail vs wholesale" mark up and at least have some idea before starting to think of price.

 

[bry_dancer]

Let's not start the "social dancers don't have or need technique" bashing again, shall we? Or else move this tired argument to another thread. Truth be told, I know comp dancers who just seem to enjoy the experience and aren't overly concerned with technical things. It cuts both ways.

I'm not bashing social dancers or saying they don't need technique at all. I LOVE social dancing and social dancers. My only point was that I just had a $500 coaching with two high level judges (on different days) that basically consisted of turning my head a little less left and doing a more noticeable heel lead. IMHO that kind of technique detail is much less important in social dancing than it is in competition dancing. Social dancing to me is about lead/follow technique and connecting/having fun with your partner.

 

[bry_dancer]

Since this is the money comisserating thread here are the things I struggle with in regard to ballroom costs...

First is opportunity cost. I always think about all the other things I could be doing with this huge sum of money and time that would be more beneficial to society or my family or my life in the future.

Second is that competitive ballroom often feels like whomever spends the most wins. I see people taking 12 lessons a week and doing a comp a month and they are often the ones that win consistently. Maybe that's how it should be but something about it rubs me the wrong way. I actually had a well known coach tell me that I should go to more comps and always do two styles and I would win more.

All that said I DO really enjoy it and it brings a lot of joy to my life and I've met some wonderful friends in the ballroom world. So it's hard to put a price tag on that.

 

[worddancer]

basically consisted of turning my head a little less left and doing a more noticeable heel lead.

This is funny because I had a coaching and another private with an instructor and it took two of them for me to realize what to fix with my neck. Neither of which involved my regular Pro. But pretty sure it was a key thing that needed fixing for the next comp.