The Money Commiserating Thread

[lucia_l]

bry_dancer,
It stands to reason that 12 lessons a week will result in much better dancing. It's a developed skill. With 12 lessons a week, you get direction and lessons also take the place of practice. The practice is always done right. It's hard for someone who takes 2 lessons a week to match that. Besides which the majority of people who take 2 lessons a week do not then practice for a time equivalent of 10 lessons a week. In many cases they either don't have the time due to work/family situation or they don't have the inclination to work that hard or especially with the smooth/standard dances, they don't have space in their homes so practice involves time, money and/or planning they can't manage to do.

Some people have deficiencies that would prevent them from winning even with 12 lessons a week. Especially in older age groups, these deficiencies can be physical and may have built up while the now wealthy person beavered away living and stooping over desks! But if they don't have these deficiencies, they are going to be the top dancers.

 

[worddancer]

Also if I had skipped my last comp I wouldn’t have so much data that I’m using to compete in Emerald. It’s not just the judges getting to know you, the experience and smartly data mining makes each comp better.

 

[bry_dancer]

It stands to reason that 12 lessons a week will result in much better dancing. It's a developed skill. With 12 lessons a week, you get direction and lessons also take the place of practice. The practice is always done right. It's hard for someone who takes 2 lessons a week to match that. Besides which the majority of people who take 2 lessons a week do not then practice for a time equivalent of 10 lessons a week

I get what you're saying but I still feel like success in pro/am ballroom is more financially driven than other competitive sports I've played at a high level (tennis and crossfit). I equate it more to yachting or showing horses. lol. My guess is that success at the am/am level is less financially driven.

Ultimately it probably boils down to ability to get quality practice on your own without paying for a partner. Sports where you can practice in a quality way on your own will be less about the finances.

@lucia_l Maybe for your next study you can chart net worth of pro-am ballroom winners?

 

[Greybeard]

@lucia_l Maybe for your next study you can chart net worth of pro-am ballroom winners?

Make it income. They probably spent so much on dancing they couldn't save any.

 

[j_alexandra]

Yeah I find it irritating. Like when I was asking people about how much indie comps cost, and students would hedge. When another student asks me how much Emerald cost I just flat out told the number.

Information is power.

This may be generational (you young whippersnapper, you). Seriously, when I grew up, we Did Not Talk About Money -- salary, savings, costs, whatever. Younger generations do, and see it as "information is power." I still believe that what I spend on anything or what I have in savings (if any) is none of anyone else's business. That's not hedging, for me; it's learned in childhood, and never un-learned.

 

[raindance]

This may be generational (you young whippersnapper, you). Seriously, when I grew up, we Did Not Talk About Money -- salary, savings, costs, whatever. Younger generations do, and see it as "information is power." I still believe that what I spend on anything or what I have in savings (if any) is none of anyone else's business. That's not hedging, for me; it's learned from childhood, and never un-learned.

And that's fine.

But if dancers want to talk amongst themselves about what things cost, the studio shouldn't be pressuring them not to. Dancing is addictive and can be very expensive. I think those of us willing to talk about what things cost owe it to newbies to clue them in early on, especially if the newbies are asking questions. Then they can make an educated decision on how to pursue their dance journey.

I don't particularly want anyone to know details of how much money I make, spend, and/or save. But I also don't want to walk into a car dealership looking for a car with no idea about the price ranges of the vehicles on display. No sense falling in love with a new Maserati when my budget can barely manage a used Honda or whatever. So someone, somewhere, needs to be open about prices. With cars, there are lots of places to get this information. With dancing, some the studios would prefer we be at their mercy with no option to plan ahead or get informed or do price comparisons. I understand that is in their business interests. But it is against the interest of dancers, particularly the newer ones who have no idea what they are walking into when their new to them teacher says "do you want to do this showcase coming up? It will be fun!"

 

[IndyLady]

I grew up the same way, talking about money was taboo. I remember a heated conversation I had with my father once when I was a teenager and he asked me what my hourly wage at my PT job was, and I refused to tell him. Of course, it was also not considered polite to ask people nosy questions about health/medical issues or to talk about those in detail, but wow that veil has been tossed aside (I have a weak stomach for those details, probably need some sort of identifying pin for the oversharers).

I remember my first conversation with my dance studio the day I walked in to inquire about lessons, and how evasive they were about pricing. If I had been savvier I would have gotten up and walked out, but I was really interested. Good thing I didn't walk out, but in hindsight... yikes.

Our first event was the intra-studio comp (mini-match or Classic). I remember being asked if we wanted to do it, and I said "Sure!". I told my husband later that I was pretty sure this was going to be expensive, over $100. He looked at me like, whatever. I was right, it was $450 (I admit I had to check my trusty spreadsheet, I did not remember that off the top of my head).

Finally, our very first instructor once told us he learned early on, and tried to teach this to other instructors/managers, that my first question in response to a proposal was always going to be "How much?" So they had better have that information ready right away. Alas, some people learn the hard way.

 

[HCE]

Hello everyone, what a great topic, especially for a newbie like myself! Absolutely, very few students in my studio talk about the expense of dancing, be it socially or competitive.

So, not being nosey, just for my own information in gaging the competitive field of dance studios around me, I am curious to know how much you all spend on dancing.

I am from the North East, near a big city. Private lesson costs about $100 and group classes around $12-15. But when it comes to showcases and competitions, studios aren't transparent; I hear there are sometime bait and switch costs. The same apply to you?

 

[fiesta0618]

Ultimately it probably boils down to ability to get quality practice on your own without paying for a partner. Sports where you can practice in a quality way on your own will be less about the finances.

This is exactly right.

I have a consistent lesson schedule with my dance partners. But about 25% of the time, we tell coach "Don't meet us this week--we need to drill what you told us last time some more."

The connection here to $$$ is that those coach-free practices cost nothing.

What determines our growth and success as am-am dancers is hours, not dollars. When your partner is a professional, though, dollars and hours almost necessarily go hand-in-hand

 

[fiesta0618]

I am from the North East, near a big city. Private lesson costs about $100 and group classes around $12-15. But when it comes to showcases and competitions, studios aren't transparent; I hear there are sometime bait and switch costs. The same apply to you?

I'm in the same general area. Boston is my local city, to narrow it down a bit.

I've mostly danced with independent coaches and studios. IME, indies tend to be pretty transparent about costs--but only when the costs are known. Depending on the organizer, competition information can sometimes be late in coming and/or now especially well-organized, so that the owner has trouble predicting precisely in advance.

I can't speak to franchises, as I haven't spent much time or money in them.

 

[HCE]

I'm in the same general area. Boston is my local city, to narrow it down a bit.

I've mostly danced with independent coaches and studios. IME, indies tend to be pretty transparent about costs--but only when the costs are known. Depending on the organizer, competition information can sometimes be late in coming and/or now especially well-organized, so that the owner has trouble predicting precisely in advance.

I can't speak to franchises, as I haven't spent much time or money in them.

Thanks Fiesta0618. I realize my question really depends on each individual's circumstances, i.e. how much one can afford, etc.

However, I am reluctant to speak to my teachers about this issue, in fear of being "roped" in and other students aren't very forth coming. I do not blame them as it is a private information.

So for example, as a novice to enter in tri-state dancesport or Paragon competioon. How much ball park am I looking at?

 

[bia]

Thanks Fiesta0618. I realize my question really depends on each individual's circumstances, i.e. how much one can afford, etc.

However, I am reluctant to speak to my teachers about this issue, in fear of being "roped" in and other students aren't very forth coming. I do not blame them as it is a private information.

So for example, as a novice to enter in tri-state dancesport or Paragon competioon. How much ball park am I looking at?

Hopefully some else will chime in with an actual answer, but my first reaction to this question is that they can't rope you in without your say-so. As long as you enter the conversation firm in your mind not to agree to anything until you have the information and have had time to consider it, you're safe. Maybe plan out and practice specific wording for how to say "maybe, but I have to consider" or "no, I'm not going to do that" if you're worried you won't be able to do so on the fly. A difficult but very useful life skill!

 

[raindance]

I also distinctly recall looking at dress prices at the vendors at my first comp. Suddenly, the "cheap" dress was over $1000. Tags ranged from $2500 to maybe $7000 for brand new gowns. My gut reaction was - what sort of transmission do these dresses have? Do they have AC and power windows??

But I was also very grateful for those price tags. At least I knew the prices of what was being offered. And now I understand those prices much better - the cost of stones and materials, the workmanship, etc. And I also understand the workarounds - rental dresses, dresses made from cheaper materials, used dresses from other dancers, etc.

 

[HCE]

Thanks Bia...good suggestion to practice saying "not yet"

The reason I ask my question is that currently ( i am 3 years into my dance life and loving it!), I am spending about $6000 a year on private/group lessons and occasional socials (obviously not this past year) My husband is on board; but any more than that, I'm not sure he'll go for.

I am not into showcases; but am intrigued about competition. So before I broach the subject with him; I'd like to be prepared with an idea of the costs.

 

[worddancer]

So for example, as a novice to enter in tri-state dancesport or Paragon competioon. How much ball park am I looking at?

This depends obviously. Generally, so I take at different studios. Here are my ballpark numbers for me.
For an independent instructor, it will probably be around 1k to 2k for maybe 4 rounds, and 2-4 multis, one style.
For a non-independent, it will be around 4k to 8k. The non-independents will charge you a day fee, so if your two styles are in the same day, it will be cheaper than if the two styles are in different days.

The numbers change base on how many dances you want to do, hair and makeup, etc etc. But that should help you ;-)