The Tango beginner

ant said:
In relation to the type of criteria listed by Albanaich when judging a persons dance ability. Do more experienced dancers begin to judge their more experienced partners in this way or do they enjoy the dance for what it is. Subject maybe to making a mental note as to what tracks individual partners may want to dance to and considering this when asking them for a dance in the future.

Sorry for being a pain.
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First up: Let's lose the word "judge". AT is neither a competition, a task or the Royal Courts of Justice where there is a trophy, a paycheque or a sentence at the end. Sadly, many people do walk into a milonga and immediately have their Judge's wig on and it is these same prats that cause never-ending heartache to other dancers. How we "consider" other dancers' abilities would be a kinder approach. Secondly, most people will dance to anything at milonga (followers especially just want the opportunity of being asked and not overlooked). I notice (from a leader's pov) that some followers prefer to sit out when a fast milonga comes on, some may even tell you. With experience and with eyes wide shut in time, you'll get a good idea who likes/can do what.
 
ant said:
In relation to the type of criteria listed by Albanaich when judging a persons dance ability. Do more experienced dancers begin to judge their more experienced partners in this way or do they enjoy the dance for what it is.
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You are not being a pain at all. I wish that more would ask, research, and practice before becoming "proficient". Albanaich is wrong. Advanced dancers are very willing to dance w/ lesser trained dancers; they do not judge. We know that a dancer is not advanced until they can dance well w/ a beginner.
 
ant said:
In relation to the type of criteria listed by Albanaich when judging a persons dance ability. Do more experienced dancers begin to judge their more experienced partners in this way or do they enjoy the dance for what it is. Subject maybe to making a mental note as to what tracks individual partners may want to dance to and considering this when asking them for a dance in the future.
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I personally am very careful about whom I will dance with to certain "difficult" pieces of music. That is if I actually want to enjoy myself rather than taking one for team. Very slow and expressive numbers make me want to dance expressively, hence I prefer a follower who can move with contrast and who is not afraid to take her time. I would not enjoy 3-4 minutes of battling between my musical interpretation and her overeagerness to complete each step. The same person's approach to the dance is much more compatible with classic tangos or milongas where their strong response to rhythmic beats is potentially an asset.

I suppose the key detail is to not write people off, because we all have good days and bad, and our tastes in music change. Ultimately my dancing preferences are dictated by character more strongly than technical skill.
 
ant said:
Do more experienced dancers begin to judge their more experienced partners in this way or do they enjoy the dance for what it is. Subject maybe to making a mental note as to what tracks individual partners may want to dance to and considering this when asking them for a dance in the future.
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Mental notes for future dances, yes, to pick the suitable partner according to the music and mood.
 
Heather2007 said:
Not all. And definitely not here in London.
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Understood. It's a worldwide problem. I guess I should have clarified. What I am saying is "truly" advanced dancers...meaning those who have learned/appreciate the meaning/joys of the dance...not those persons who are superficially advanced...legends in their own minds.
 
Heather2007 said:
Not all. And definitely not here in London
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Yeah, I've noticed you being all snobby at Negracha's... :p

As to the "judge" thing, I think there's always an element of evaluation of a new partner. The more experienced you get as a dancer, the better you get at quickly and unconsciously evaluating your partner.

But that's not "judgement", there's no value-laden implication involved.

As for "advanced dancers", I'm going to dig up that old Dick Crum quote:

  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beginning dancer: knows nothing.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Intermediate dancer: knows everything; too good to dance with beginners.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Hotshot dancer: too good to dance with anyone.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Advanced dancer: dances everything. Especially with beginners.[/FONT]
 
Dave Bailey said:
Yeah, I've noticed you being all snobby at Negracha's... :p
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Don't get me started with that place. It took me nigh on two years after the beginner level to get asked to dance. Like some masochistic wannabee, I stuck it out. Was at Carablancas last Friday and one guy said to me, why is it that the music is good here, the floor is good, the people are friends, the ambiance relaxing but I still prefer Negrachas. I knew exactly what he meant. My response was: Negrachas is arrogant and competitive, flashy, showeyoffie, but pulls me back time and time. :twisted:
 
Heh! You went through hell now you want to spend some time relaxing in the mud pool ...

I have a friend who went to Carablanca's Friday . She said she enjoyed it but there were a lot of beginners there. Did you think the same? (Of course, not that we wont dance with beginners .... but .... )
 
Dave Bailey said:
As for "advanced dancers", I'm going to dig up that old Dick Crum quote:

  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beginning dancer: knows nothing.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Intermediate dancer: knows everything; too good to dance with beginners.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Hotshot dancer: too good to dance with anyone.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Advanced dancer: dances everything. Especially with beginners.[/FONT]
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On a different note, it appears to me, at least for leads :

  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beginning lead: Able to walk through memorized patterns with beginner follows.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Intermediate lead: Has some lead skills, but not good enough to actually lead beginning follows.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Advanced lead: Good enough to dance with all, including beginners.[/FONT]
Bottom line for me is that actually leading beginner follows seems to be a fairly high skill activity.
 
tangonuevo said:
Bottom line for me is that actually leading beginner follows seems to be a fairly high skill activity.
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Yes, I agree. Mainly because you have to lead exceptionally clearly, and also automatically compensate for mistakes, before they develop into serious problems.

Almost any fool can lead an exceptional follower; it takes real skill to have a good dance with a total novice. And I think that was Dick Crum's point.
 
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