little hobo
New Member
A good leader enjoys making his partner feel good.
Irrespective of either of their "levels".
Irrespective of either of their "levels".
The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man
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jennyisdancing
Active Member
:friend:
I think most of us can sense this. There are some dancers who are just people persons. Even if their partner's technical level is lower than their own, they honestly enjoy the interpersonal part of dancing. It's a pleasure to dance with someone like that.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
And do you think that this is why people teach ( aside from money) that they are motivated
by wanting to make people feel insecure or inferior? Its ridiculous. I was effectively taxi dancing yesterday with ladies who had had maybe between 2 and a dozen lessons. There were maybe half a dozen experienced dancers there offering encouragement and their experience alongside the teachers. And you belittle us because we are "charitable" because the polar opposite of this is elitism; dancers who wont dance with beginners.
If you arent Monica Belucci and/or can dance like Ines Mousavi then you are a charity dance. Deal with it. :lol:
bastet
Active Member
I concur with this entirely and agree with you and Peaches completely. A charity dance isn't necessarily from someone vastly superior in dance skills. It could also be someone at or near your level and relates more to the idea that you can tell you are "on sufferance", as it were, by dancing with them.
I have danced with some teachers (Gustavo Saba and Robert Hauk come to mind off the bat) and their interpersonal skills are so good that self-consciousness on my part didn't really enter the picture. Meanwhile, I have danced with other instructors on occasion and clearly felt like I "got" to dance with them because I had taken privates with them or something. Even then, I'm still with Peaches, and I generally won't ask someone I feel is so high above my level that it might be an intrusion and it's not because I'm trying to be reverse snobby or anything, I'm just trying to respect them. I tend to leave it to tradition in that case and let them ask until I know how they feel.
That being said, there's a reverse side to to the pity dance also. The ones who try to dance with you because they know they can (attempt to) do certain or complicated moves with you (however poorly) and not because they actually enjoy your company.
It's very important that someone enjoy my company and me theirs.
jennyisdancing
Active Member
Wow
...unless you completely meant this as a joke (which is hard to tell in an impersonal online forum).
bastet
Active Member
BTM, I think it's great that you seem to be pretty gregarious and easygoing about your dances. You probably like interpersonal interaction also. And that is good. But try to understand that not every leader is like this at all....AT ALL. There are quite a few out there who are quite happy to lord it over you that they are the GIFT to the *insert your community name here* community and you should be serving them pie (or at least a very nice cake) if they deign to dance with you.
I suspect that the smiley is the tip off that it's a joke.Wow
Yes, and there are followers like that too. Some people act like it's some sort of caste system. Me, I'm too old too care about it. Most people are either better than me or worse than me. I ask them all.
bastet
Active Member
Yes, and there are followers like that too. Some people act like it's some sort of caste system. Me, I'm too old too care about it. Most people are either better than me or worse than me. I ask them all.
that's all too true. it goes both ways, but in tango the deck tends to be stacked against the ladies (traditionally) and despite the "code" being a bit more flexible here in the US (or outside Argentina) I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to feeling comfortable approaching someone who is not already a "regular" on my dance card.
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
When somebody asks me to a dance, I assume one thing -- he does so because he wants to dance tango with me, here and now, to that music, an honest and sincere attempt to be together for 11 minutes or so, creating a good feeling, potentially, something great.
If the partner has a hidden agenda, how is it any of my problem? Why am I supposed to feel bad about it? If it somehow becomes obvious in the process, most of the time I will just laugh it off.
If the partner has a hidden agenda, how is it any of my problem? Why am I supposed to feel bad about it? If it somehow becomes obvious in the process, most of the time I will just laugh it off.
bastet
Active Member
this is certainly a point to consider. However, I think what Peaches and Jenny and myself also are trying to say is that there are some people for whom the "attempt to create a good feeling" part is not present from the start but rather the "look I'm so special and so good for coming to ask you to dance" part is. It'd be nice if I could laugh that feeling off, but I have trouble with that.
as for the sincere leaders who are above my level and still ask me to dance,a nd are sincere about it, that is no longer a charity dance, as I mentioned originally. Just because someone above your level asks you to dance doesn't automatically make it "charity", or the reverse also. If you ask someone to dance who is below your own level, it's not necessarily charity.
Dancing with someone of a different level under the conditions you mention- respect, creating a good feeling, honest and sincere- doesn't fall under my definition of "charity". Charity is just that- they MEAN for you to know they are doing you a big favor.
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
I am curious, how does that manifest? Is that something specific they do or rather an interpretation?
I like this attitude. Do you want to dance or not? I realize there are insecurities to deal with, but the question is still the same. If you don't like the situation, then say "no". If you say "yes" then focus your mind on dancing.
Followers could have alternative goals also. Maybe they think someone is an jerk, but they just want to find out what it feels like to dance with him. Maybe they feel like working on their ganchos and know that a certain leader will give them plenty.
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Otherwise we could psychoanalyze each other till the cows come home.
bastet
Active Member
Let's see...soem of this is interpretation, and so subjective, but if a leader asks me to dance who is at or above my skill level, then proceeds to do such things as (partial list follows):
constantly readjust his embrace, possibly combined with becoming or feeling tense while dancing (which I often interpret as displeasure since if they are at or above my level it's probably not nerves/fear) and if this increases with mistakes I may make, interact as little as possible during the tanda and can't get away fast enough when it is done, then I tend to presume I was probably the recipient of a "charity" dance of some sort and that it is not that they actually wanted to share a dance (or at least became that way), but they felt they had to for whatever reason unbeknown to me.
It's just been my experience that people that remain friendly from beginning to end of tanda despite whatever may go wrong, generally aren't dancing out of charity but as a genuine attempt to connect and enjoy.
constantly readjust his embrace, possibly combined with becoming or feeling tense while dancing (which I often interpret as displeasure since if they are at or above my level it's probably not nerves/fear) and if this increases with mistakes I may make, interact as little as possible during the tanda and can't get away fast enough when it is done, then I tend to presume I was probably the recipient of a "charity" dance of some sort and that it is not that they actually wanted to share a dance (or at least became that way), but they felt they had to for whatever reason unbeknown to me.
It's just been my experience that people that remain friendly from beginning to end of tanda despite whatever may go wrong, generally aren't dancing out of charity but as a genuine attempt to connect and enjoy.