The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

[Zoopsia59]

some of what you have said can be mis-interpeted as expecting others (and it really doesnt matter which role) to be divinely accomodating of those who display an ongoing disrespect for the dancing.

?

I don't remember anyone, let along me, suggesting that a disrespect for the dancing, especially an ongoing one should even be tolerated, much less rewarded! Nor did I mention anything about irresponsibly bad followers.

I only remember talking about skill and experience levels, not actual disrespect of the dance. How exactly does one "disrespect the dance" without disrespecting any dancers anyway? I'm not even sure what that means. It should be clear by now that I'm totally against disrespecting the PEOPLE, so....

Could you post some examples of things I said that you feel could give this impression so that I can address the issue or change my wording in the future to avoid giving such an impression? Also, it would help me understand what you mean by "displaying an ongoing disrespect for the dance", because that certainly doesn't sound like the sort of thing I would condone.

 

[fascination]

personally I think the thread should stay on topic instead of veering off into the personal and the absurd...

 

[Chris Stratton]

No, I don't think you would condone disrespect for dancing (and believe I specifically acknowledged that).

But when you said the leader's reaction was under his control, that could be interpreted as suggesting that his reaction to someone who shows irresponsible disrespect for the dancing should be something he can fully control to the point of making her feel special.

I don't think you meant that, but one can (mis)read that into your comment.

 

[fascination]

well...if one is determined enough...

still, in a social venue, IMO a person is simply daft if they intend to hold onto notions of maintaining the integrity of a dance and not allowing it to be disrespected...and I am rather in the camp that in a partner dance, particularly in a social venue, respecting the partner is primary to respecting the dance......


and now...how about we continue to allow this thread to be about what women look for in a lead?

 

[Zoopsia59]

But when you said the leader's reaction was under his control, that could be interpreted as suggesting that his reaction to someone who shows irresponsible disrespect for the dancing should be something he can fully control to the point of making her feel special.

I said his ATTITUDE is under his control.

I meant mostly the attitude he goes INTO the tanda with, and perhaps that's where I was unclear.

It is, I admit, difficult to react positively to someone else who has a terrible attitude of their own. But that's different from having a negative reaction or attitude because their dancing isn't what one had hoped.

And certainly his behavior is under his control regardless of how the other person dances or acts. If it's not, he has no business engaging in something as intimate and interactive as Argentine social tango.

I'm still not clear on what you mean by "irresponsible disrespect for the dancing" as a thing separate from disrespecting the dancers.

Edited to say, if the mods don't wish to see that further discussed on this thread, you can PM me, because I would like to know what you mean.

 

[Chris Stratton]

If you are going to dismiss what the other side says as absurd, you are going to have a hard time understanding the source of their reactions to comments that you see as entirely reasonable.

What should be blatantly obvious here is that each side is contemplating what the other side is saying not in reference to the person who is saying it, but in reference to some of the worst situations they've run into at dances.

That's the problem with making simple rules - they lack the exceptions and contingencies needed to be livable.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I'm still not sure how anyone could interpret anything I said to apply to an irresponsible or disrespectful follower. That's a whole different discussion.

Because you didn't state that case an an exception, you left it up to the reader's assumption. Now I happen to think you seem like a reasonable person who would agree that its a two way street, but there wasn't actual an exception in your post to give the guys a break on the more impossible cases.

And I'm also still not clear on what you mean by "irresponsible disrespect for the dancing" as a thing separate from disrespecting the dancers.

Each partner has obligations in the dance, to their partner, which grow with their experience. Respecting the dance and the partner requires that one not be dismissive of these. I don't for a minute think you are, but everyone has run into plenty of examples of others who are.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Each partner has obligations in the dance, to their partner, which grow with their experience. Respecting the dance and the partner requires that one not be dismissive of these.

OK, but that answer still doesn't explain what "respecting the dance" means and how it is different from respecting the other person. It just repeats the phrase and that it is important to do.

I'm hammering on this for 2 reasons:

1) to make sure I understand your point.

2) to make sure we aren't getting into the territory of what are and aren't acceptable ways to dance AT. (you mentioned "integrity of the dance" in a post) I know you are an experienced ballroom dancer, but I'm not clear on your experience with AT and that, for most people and in many communities, it has fewer "rules" that must be respected to maintain its "integrity" as a dance form. I don't want to debate those rules here because there is no consensus even on this forum, and it's totally OT for the thread.

IF that is the sort of thing you mean by respecting the dance and the integrity of the dance, then it doesn't really apply to what I'm talking about on this thread.

 

[jennyisdancing]

folks are quibbling because we want men to have a respectful, courteous, engaged and fun ATTITUDE? Really? That's asking too much of a dance partner?

I'm surprised this simple statement is being interpreted so many ways. It makes perfect sense to me. All we're talking about here is one person wanting their interaction with another person to be a warm, friendly, respectful and happy experience. No different on a dance floor than in another other segment of life.

 

[DL]

Apologies, for I haven't carefully perused this whole thread.

But, the rough anatomy of such threads that I've seen in the past:
1. wonderful things about leaders
2. specific good things good leaders do
3. things that are expected from leaders
4. bad things that good leaders don't do
5. bad things about bad bleaders
6. minimum qualities followers are entitled to expect from leaders
7. what leaders owe followers
8. whoa, we got here from there?!?

I'm a guy, so I have a leader-centric view. I surely believe that there's an equivalent degeneration of commentary from leaders from a follower's perspective.

This all just seems so fruitless to me. If you want to be a successful participant in the dance community: never stop learning, do your best to be gracious and sociable towards your fellow dancers, and cut them some slack on their off nights for you will have your own.

ETA: ...and be patient with yourself and with your fellow dancers. Dancing can be an undertaking fraught with emotionalism, particularly for the first few years.

 

[Zoopsia59]

do your best to be gracious and sociable towards your fellow dancers, and cut them some slack on their off nights for you will have your own.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say. The only reason its from the follower's perspective about leaders is because we have 2 threads going.. one for what makes a man choose a partner, and what makes a woman choose a partner.

So since the other thread was gender specific based on women wondering how important looks are to men, I deliberately made this one to divide by gender as well, and not by dance role.

It is only because of the common social pattern in dancing that it became about leaders and followers. I was trying to make it a clue for MEN about what is important to WOMEN. The women who chimed in all happen to be primarily followers, but that wasn't my primary intention.

 

[DL]

po-TAY-to po-TAH-to

 

[Chris Stratton]

OK, but that answer still doesn't explain what "respecting the dance" means and how it is different from respecting the other person.

I'm not sure they are really seperable for me in a dancing context. Perhaps as a result I sometimes have enjoyable conversations with people at events, without asking them to dance.

to make sure we aren't getting into the territory of what are and aren't acceptable ways to dance AT. (you mentioned "integrity of the dance" in a post) I know you are an experienced ballroom dancer, but I'm not clear on your experience with AT and that, for most people and in many communities, it has fewer "rules" that must be respected to maintain its "integrity" as a dance form. I don't want to debate those rules here because there is no consensus even on this forum, and it's totally OT for the thread.

I don't recall using the word integrity, but perhaps I did. I think that each dance (or subcommunity within one) has aspects on which it places high value, and that while they will be different between dances and preferences, the idea that they exist will be common.

But I think I can make the point at a much more fundamental level: just as we have communication etiquette for how we converse with others about dancing in words or body language, there is also physical etiquette in the conduct of the dance itself, that reduces to the same rule - don't make the other person uncomfortable!

Because we haven't been trained in the technique of physical etiquette by the rest of life, we have to be more tolerant of physical faux pas... but I do think it reasonable to expect that a concept of physical etiquette (even if never named) be at the core of a partner's dancing.

 

[bordertangoman]

of "charity". Charity is just that- they MEAN for you to know they are doing you a big favor.

Yes, i am familiar with that concept of "Charity"; "I am giving you something therfore you MUST be grateful"

Quite honestly i quit worrying about what my motives might be, since they'ree never going to be as selfless as I would like and once I am dancing then I'm just dancing as DChester said there's always better and worse dancers than me.

 

[Peaches]

Jayzuz H. Christ on a crutch!

What seemed like a simple idea...which most people seem to be in agreement with...and 11 pages of bickering about things. Good lord.