The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

I have danced with plenty of men whose sole objective was to either impress me, show off to the crowd or see if I could follow at a level that was clearly beyond my scope irrespective of the obviousness of that and the unpleasantness of it...those who have not had that experience are fortunate, but I would maintain, are also rare.
 
fascination said:
here's the thing ...just because one puts forth an effort one doesn't feel doesn't mean it's fake...sometimes our affections take a break and the most loving noble thing one can do is to be kind and loving in the absence of feeling it...it isn't being fake, it is being selfless and transcendent...and, IMO, it is a sad day when people think an important part of authenticity is being candid about whatever affect they are currently lacking...emotions come and go...character is a decision...if that is being fake I gladly claim it...but frankly, I seek to be far better than the lowest feelings I experience
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Methinks it goes hand-in-hand with charity being offensive and humility no longer being a virtue...
 
yep...you don't want to get me on that soap box...or onto the reasons why I think it has happened...at least not on this thread...perhaps I will note an observation or two on enlightenment when I have the time
 
Zoopsia59 said:
Aside from the obvious verbal feedback, It can take the form of exasperated noises when she doesn't follow the move. Or him repeating the move over and over with more and more force each time in the hopes that she'll eventually end up doing it one way or the other, even though she's clearly frustrated about it.
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FTFY.

Short and sweet example, taken from my own personal experience: guys, if you find yourself resorting to attempting to KICK my foot into the desired position...deliberately kicking...things have veered off into the realm of sh*t we ladies don't appreciate. This happened to me several years ago, when I was just starting (and yet, somehow, I'm perfectly comfortable saying I was even then a better dancer than him) and I still refuse to dance with the guy.

Just sayin'.
 
Joe said:
I don't know about all that. Sometimes you're just so used to leading advanced material that it's hard to simplify things when you're not dancing with someone who's capable of following that material.
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Er...a couple of things.

1)I can see this in a BR context. I'm not convinced of it in an AT context because, fundamentally, AT is a walking dance. When all else fails, you fall back on walking rhythmically. If there's struggling going on at that level, well, we're no longer in the same realm of being used to leading advanced material and finding it difficult to simplify sufficiently.

2)You speaking from personal experience? Cuz, I've danced (*cough* Just let that word slip by for the moment, eh? Yes, I'm aware I'm taking liberties. *cough*) Standard with you, and certainly can't follow or dance that for sh*t, and yet you seemed fine. So...???
 
Peaches said:
1)I can see this in a BR context. I'm not convinced of it in an AT context because, fundamentally, AT is a walking dance. When all else fails, you fall back on walking rhythmically. If there's struggling going on at that level, well, we're no longer in the same realm of being used to leading advanced material and finding it difficult to simplify sufficiently.
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I see that too Peaches in the context of ballroom though even in that
there's little excuse for a man ignoring that his partner isn't keeping up
and blithely carrying on. He has to be a real moron frankly.

In AT, certainly in the embrace, there's even less excuse. Open hold, and
Nuevo maybe, is a little different and I know ladies who definitely do feel
inadequate and challenged by some flashy male.
 
Joe said:
I don't know about all that. Sometimes you're just so used to leading advanced material that it's hard to simplify things when you're not dancing with someone who's capable of following that material.
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To my mind that equals a bad dancer.
 
Peaches said:
Er...a couple of things.

1)I can see this in a BR context. I'm not convinced of it in an AT context because, fundamentally, AT is a walking dance. When all else fails, you fall back on walking rhythmically. If there's struggling going on at that level, well, we're no longer in the same realm of being used to leading advanced material and finding it difficult to simplify sufficiently.

2)You speaking from personal experience? Cuz, I've danced (*cough* Just let that word slip by for the moment, eh? Yes, I'm aware I'm taking liberties. *cough*) Standard with you, and certainly can't follow or dance that for sh*t, and yet you seemed fine. So...???
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I wouldn't be surprised if some of the habits Joe (or I) are imperfect at shedding are not things that are actually complicated, but may simply be outside the experience of those with a figures-based intermediate background.

For someone who instead feels dancing as a development of walking, they might come out as naturally as anything else.
 
Joe said:
I don't know about all that. Sometimes you're just so used to leading advanced material that it's hard to simplify things when you're not dancing with someone who's capable of following that material.
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That may be more of a ballroom thing... I believe the general consensus in AT is that if you can't lead simple moves and make an interesting and enjoyable dance, you aren't an advanced leader yet.

IME, typically it is not the advanced AT leaders who have trouble dancing successfully with beginners or lesser skilled dancers... it is the intermediate (or advanced beginner) leaders who THINK they are "advanced" that have the most trouble (and usually have the worst attitude about it)

In AT, Walking simply but elegantly and smoothly IS the "advanced material"
 
DL said:
Then again, I've seen DF ladies say that they wish leaders would provide another chance if a step doesn't turn out as planned. It's hard to know in the moment what case applies.
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DL if you're still with us (and I hope you are) yes, it can be confusing when one follower WANTS you to keep at it and another wishes you'd let it go.

It's sorta like how I was told recently by a leader that I was the best follower he danced with, and after a tanda with a different leader shortly afterwards, I got a clear impression that I left much to be desired.. From best follower at the milonga to totally sucking in one short tanda!

Anyway... here's the rule of thumb that would work for me. Other followers can chime in if their mileage is different (or if maybe they don't totally suck like me ;) )

For repeating a move that isn't working at a MILONGA (practicas have different rules... theoretically, you're there to work on stuff you can't do... at a milonga, it's best to stick with what you CAN do)

Twice in a row is enough. Three times is pushing it. More than 3 and we'll be ready to walk away from you and never look back. Also, if we got it the 3rd time (finally!) repeating immediately feels like you are making us "practice" it now that we finally have it.

Three (maybe 4) times spread out over the course of a tanda is enough. If we didn't get it by then, let it go.

Now for the disclaimer... I have occasionally joked "I ALMOST have it... do it again!" when being led something I'm not quite getting that I think I'd like to perfect. And I have asked between songs "What was that thing you were doing.. it seemed nifty, but I couldn't quite get it"

Those kinds of statements are clear indications that she's interested in the move and that you are free to work it a more. In fact, one of my favorite leaders and I have a running joke about a move he does that I STILL never get.. he's the only leader I know who does it, and it starts exactly like something else that everyone does, so I flub it every time. And every time I roll my eyes and say "Darn! Missed it AGAIN!". Then we joke about how many years it will be before I learn to follow this rather spiffy move and stop anticipating that he is doing the OTHER rather spiffy move.

Basically, I think its a safe bet that silence means you should drop it. If you find out later that she wishes you'd given her another crack at it, then you'll either know for next time, or you can take her out in the lobby or over in a corner or something and show it to her. (if the set-up allows for that kind of thing)

In the long run, even if she'd wanted another chance, isn't it better to leave her feeling that than leave her feeling annoyed, frustrated or inadequate?
 
fascination said:
perhaps joe...but I doubt it...I think most men, when percieving that a lady is struggling with advanced moves, actually have the courtesy to tone it down...but, some men; A) don't percieve it b)could if they wished to but are too self-absorbed c)get a charge out of it and think they are being impressive
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And some men (in AT anyway) will insist on teaching you the move right there on the dance floor!
 
Zoopsia59 said:
It's sorta like how I was told recently by a leader that I was the best follower he danced with, and after a tanda with a different leader shortly afterwards, I got a clear impression that I left much to be desired.. From best follower at the milonga to totally sucking in one short tanda!
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You're not alone Zoops. One partner recently told me before dancing that
she had just been instructed she needed to change much of what she was doing.
Yet earlier she had been asked by someone else to help demonstrate for
some beginner teaching. Reassuringly she then said to me how pleased
it was me she was now going to dance with as she could just relax and dance.
I thought at the time "how nice", and still do.

After that, love the rest of your post. It seems good to me.
 
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