Perfectly! I was just hung up on the part "no change of the torso", because for me the initiation of the next step is a change of the torso
Gssh
I probably should have said "No change in the torso relative to the leader"
Ugly feet
- Thread starter Peaches
- Start date
I probably should have said "No change in the torso relative to the leader"
I think he was also meaning the way the free leg can change the way the follower feels weighted to the leader if she allows the free leg to shift her weight somewhere other than where it should be. I can see how that would feel like the leader has to contend with some "dead weight".
You wouldn't have to have the leg stiff or even fully extended for this to happen (since its really a problem of the axis, balance and how well the follower maintains all that), but its probably hard to avoid it if the leg has reached past where it should and especially if it's in the air. I imagine a very strong dancer could do it, but most social tango dancers don't have that level of muscle strength or control.
It also takes some flexibility in addition to the muslce strength (more in the back than the legs) I know that if I'm not holding on to something, I can't move my leg back in the air and hold it there straightened without something changing in my upper body.
Normal... but REALLY REALLY Annoying!:cry:
The problem with pointing the foot is that it raises the heel. If the follower reaches the correct amount based on the lead with her foot pointed and knee straight, that means she's likely going to end up pulling away from the leader in order to get her heel down. (unless she's one of those who never puts her heels down at all... lets not go there) If she has only the tip of the big toe making contact, she has to move further just to get her metatarsal down to begin transferring weight.
Yes, this is the voice of experience. I've had to retrain my brain NOT to extend with a pointed toe for exactly this reason. Thank you Marianna Galassi for pointing this error out specifically and re-training the way I reached back.
Prior to that lesson, I knew I had a "pulling away issue" ("she's there, then she's not" from the leader's standpoint) but I didn't realize it was this one simple thing. I had been scolded about pulling away at a certain point in the step, but never told WHY it was happening (just told not to do it
).One well regarded teacher even tried to tell me not to put my heels down at all, because it typically resulted in this yin-yang effect (not just me... it was his general instruction) Until Mariana, no one told me how to fix it by simply changing the position of my foot as I extended. (still having to remind myself though... I did ballet style movement much longer than I've been working on this tango improvement. Even skaters point their free foot as much as possible given the constraints of the boot)
Marianna is an excellent example of a follower with beautiful feet. Every move she makes is gorgeous.
Peaches
Well-Known Member
See, now, perhaps there is where personal style and breaking the rules comes into play. Perhaps.
I generally don't reach back with my heels. I step back--from the hip--but with a slightly bent knee and my toes touching the floor. I don't really point my foot, it's sort of relaxed, but the heel is definitely up when I step back. No, I'm not always on my toes...unless I want to be for some reason, in which case it's a (semi-)conscious decision, and I'm OK with that. Usually it's a rise and fall sort of deal, or some deliberate styling, or something. Point is, it's not a bad habit, it's deliberate. And, regarding the slightly bent knee, no, I don't knock knees with my leaders.
Any-hoo. Point is, I don't pull away from my leaders, either. So I'm not convinced that A always leads to B, in this case.
*shrug*
I generally don't reach back with my heels. I step back--from the hip--but with a slightly bent knee and my toes touching the floor. I don't really point my foot, it's sort of relaxed, but the heel is definitely up when I step back. No, I'm not always on my toes...unless I want to be for some reason, in which case it's a (semi-)conscious decision, and I'm OK with that. Usually it's a rise and fall sort of deal, or some deliberate styling, or something. Point is, it's not a bad habit, it's deliberate. And, regarding the slightly bent knee, no, I don't knock knees with my leaders.
Any-hoo. Point is, I don't pull away from my leaders, either. So I'm not convinced that A always leads to B, in this case.
*shrug*
If your knee is not straight, then you would be able to get your heel down by straightening it, so having the heel lifted wouldn't be as much of an issue. You also say you aren't pointing with your foot, so you aren't doing what I was doing. I was POINTING. ie: stretch in the top of my foot, edge of the big toe on the floor... not even the metatarsal down. Without a really flexible achilles, its damn near impossible to put your leg in that position and then (without moving) get your heel down without your upper body moving slightly backwards. It basically amounts to reaching too far back for the leader's eventual step. As a result, you either have to pull away or lean more on the leader because you can't get your weight over your foot properly.
And she is just a JOY to take lessons with. I can't sing her praises enough.
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Oh. True. I guess I homed in on the "toes touching the floor" and "heel up" part of your post and responded to that. I never thought about it this way, though.
Perhaps I should spend more time thinking about what I do...
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Oh, good lord, YES!
One lesson--feel like everything clicks, I make a Great Leap Forward, and end up feeling on top of the world.
Next lesson--What dance am I trying to do??? How do I follow? How do I walk in heels? What have I accomplished with all of the $$$ spent on lessons??? And then walk out wanting to either scream, or cry, or both.
Perhaps I should spend more time thinking about what I do...
Why? If what you are doing works for you, then be happy. I break things down because I enjoy teaching and if I haven't thought it through, I don't know how I would explain it to someone else.
The other day I actually did calculate how much money I have spent on group & private dance lessons over the past year. I don't recommend doing this.What have I accomplished with all of the $$$ spent on lessons???
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it works...for a given quantity of "works."
I actually like taking things apart and looking at them and thinking about them and pondering what I'm doing with my dancing. It gives my brain something fun to think about while I'm at work and letting other bits of my brain deal with more mundane tasks.
I actually like taking things apart and looking at them and thinking about them and pondering what I'm doing with my dancing. It gives my brain something fun to think about while I'm at work and letting other bits of my brain deal with more mundane tasks.
Angel HI
Well-Known Member
Forgive me, please, for, but allow me to come in late. I have taught w/ Omar, and what he meant by the extended legs comment was that many follows are so intent on reaching for a line that they do not use the feet/legs to aid the movement...dead leg...(one that can not be used). He would also say that this results in the man having to carry the lady to place her on her weight. He hated that, and would add almost in a rhyming fashion, "Yo no puedo bailar, si tengo que llevarla" (I can not dance if I have to dance for her).
Light Sleeper
New Member
So, basically he was saying many follows have bad technique. Their posture and body positioning is wrong and maybe they consciously try to be stylised/ elegant by reaching with their leg stiffened and maybe they have a stiff standing leg too, which may add to the problem?