Blech! I hate this too. The whole point of boleos and ganchos is a natural reaction to torque, interrupted momentum, or whatever. If you're going to hold it in the air, at what point would one engage the muscles to do that? How can this sudden muscle tension NOT create other problems? Obviously that muscle rigidity can't be there too SOON. The only way it can work is if its choreographed so that the boleo or gancho is anticipated and not led in the first place, I would think.
Ugly feet
- Thread starter Peaches
- Start date
Blech! I hate this too. The whole point of boleos and ganchos is a natural reaction to torque, interrupted momentum, or whatever. If you're going to hold it in the air, at what point would one engage the muscles to do that? How can this sudden muscle tension NOT create other problems? Obviously that muscle rigidity can't be there too SOON. The only way it can work is if its choreographed so that the boleo or gancho is anticipated and not led in the first place, I would think.
We can try, but as I recall, we've been down this road before without reaching (giggle) a consensus.
How do they float their foot - I don't get it, why do they hover and not put weight onto that foot?
They should do neither... the foot should have contact with the floor without being weighted.
Well, I wouldn't be reaching (lets call it extending since "reaching" seems to carrying a negative connotation in this thread) I wouldn't be extending if the leader hasn't yet initiated the movement to lead the next step. I extend as a reaction to (and in the direction of) a lead I get from him. In this case, he shouldn't expect me to still be collected.
If he does have me "static" (ie: I've not gotten a lead to do anything post my collection from the previous step) anything I do with my free leg is an embellishment and as such, I better be prepared to get out of it PDQ when he leads something. If I can't respond that quickly, I shouldn't be doing embellishments.
However, I wouldn't do an extension behind me as an embellishment because I can't see back there. (and I certainly wouldn't FULLY extend behind me!) For all I know, the reason he hasn't led the next step is because there's no room for me to go there.
Does that answer your question, or not quite?
kieronneedscake
New Member
Yes, I know. That's why I mentioned it. I think it the visual manifestation of the wrong approach to using their legs.
Whether pointy toes while reaching has anything to do with it remains a mystery to me. Glad I don't totter around in heels... :nope:
bastet
Active Member
don't know if this has been answered yet but sometimes a lead may feel something like what I think you are saying, even when the follow hasn't moved and it may be that she is dropping her hip on the extending side. I think you could extend a certain amount (based on how much energy you feel from the leader) and after that it will feel like pulling away.
Embellishments work for follows if we keep them at the level of the knee and down...then a lead is less likely to notice anything...at least...my other half says he never has any idea when I am doing things and this is what I do.
I don't know how much following you do, but I always recommend learning that end of the dance if you want to make suggestions about it to someone in a practica. I don't really think it's possible for a lead to understand what follow techniques are just from leading them or vice versa. That's one reason I learned to lead...so I'd feel like I had a little cred if I'm going to make suggestions to a lead about what I am feeling from him and what was causing it. Just my opinion tho.
Perfectly! I was just hung up on the part "no change of the torso", because for me the initiation of the next step is a change of the torso
Ahh, the beauty of studying tango - for every single thing anybody believes to be true there is somebody out there who thinks the complete opposite.
In the end i think the only thing we can do is to try to learn from everybody, and to see what is true for our own dancing. There are lots of things i have learned by taking classes from people whose style i don't really dance like myself - by understanding the purpose of their technique i get a better understanding of what i am usually doing. I find it utterly fascinating how tiny decisions cascade into a completely different look and feel of the dance. Sadly enough there are not many people who understand or have thought about the structures underlying their dance.
A lot of the milonga i dance comes over a few degrees of seperation from people who have studied alongside with and from omar vega, and this whole "dead leg" is something i have started to experience after working on my milonga. As a leader in milonga i have to utterly trust my perception of the followers steps - i don't have time or space to fix things like i do have in tango. And after a while i started to want to feel that degree of comfort and trust in tango, too.
Gssh
tangobro
Active Member
pretty feet - dead legs
Just to clarify the Omar Vega story - his "example" with the reaching legs & pointed toes was more like a parody, he even ended it with an exaggerated ballet looking pose. Another thing he said, which goes back to the OP's question about pretty feet - the mirror is not your friend/partner/companion (companero) , don't dance with the mirror!
Zoopsia - yes, there were some "lost in translation" comments that he made, the one about the "dead legs" and this one about the mirror being among them (which may be one of the reasons why they stood out in my mind).
Just to clarify the Omar Vega story - his "example" with the reaching legs & pointed toes was more like a parody, he even ended it with an exaggerated ballet looking pose. Another thing he said, which goes back to the OP's question about pretty feet - the mirror is not your friend/partner/companion (companero) , don't dance with the mirror!
Zoopsia - yes, there were some "lost in translation" comments that he made, the one about the "dead legs" and this one about the mirror being among them (which may be one of the reasons why they stood out in my mind).
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Er...I know the mirror is not my partner, and I don't dance for the mirror. Usually I can't see much beyond my partner's neck, or I dance with my eyes closed, or I let my focus go. But now and again I catch glimpses...and I don't like what I see.
bastet
Active Member
it's not changing weight without the torso (ie- leaders trick of switching to cross system) but of being able to move the free leg without changing the rest of her body (ie- lapis, taps, toe flip ups, ankle hooks and other such adornments) so her weight stays on the standing leg until being asked to move, but is allowed to play until being asked to do otherwise or in the case of adornments that can happen while in motion (like taps or ankle hooks) without the leader having known she did them (keep it low).
tangobro
Active Member
I think that was his point!
Light Sleeper
New Member
Re dead leg - seems he meant, stiff as in like rigor mortis, then. And generally he was trying to press home the point that the leg needs to be relaxed, not stiff as in ballet etc
Probably a point about trying not to do things with your feet that are deemed pretty in other dances, like pointing the toe, which are 'not' 'pretty' when you're doing tango.
Light Sleeper
New Member
Don't be so down on yourself :friend: Can you not compare yourself with how you were when you first started, and how much better you are?
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Oh, yes, I can. And I do. Sometimes.
I'm actually relatively pleased with where I am. It's not perfect, but it is better than it was a year ago, and way better than where I've started. I know I've come a good way.
But I also know that I have a long ways to go. It seems that whenever one aspect of my dancing comes together and makes a Great Leap Forward, shortly thereafter everything goes to hell in a handbasket. heh. But then it comes together again, better than it had been. DH assures me this is a normal learning process.
I'm actually very comfortable where where I am, and the realization that it's not perfect and it's just going to take time to get to where I want to be. ...that said, patience is not one of my strengths, and I want my feet to be pretty NOW, gosh darnit!! LOL.
I'm actually relatively pleased with where I am. It's not perfect, but it is better than it was a year ago, and way better than where I've started. I know I've come a good way.
But I also know that I have a long ways to go. It seems that whenever one aspect of my dancing comes together and makes a Great Leap Forward, shortly thereafter everything goes to hell in a handbasket. heh. But then it comes together again, better than it had been. DH assures me this is a normal learning process.
I'm actually very comfortable where where I am, and the realization that it's not perfect and it's just going to take time to get to where I want to be. ...that said, patience is not one of my strengths, and I want my feet to be pretty NOW, gosh darnit!! LOL.