What are DJs doing wrong

[JournalInTime]

Therefore my #1 criterion as a dancer is beauty, which is to a certain extent subjective, but not totally so.

I find that it's close to totally subjective. To me, El Nene del Abasto and Bélgica are beautiful pieces, but I've had many tango friends call them awful. Conversely, people around me seem to be in love with Fresedo, whom I can take or leave, and mostly leave. I don't really think you can vote on "beautiful" and go with a majority . . . I think it's always an individual decision.

- when people force fast rhythmic dancing that is out of character to a lyrical piece, or the reverse

Most often the reverse, in my experience. Lyrical dancing seems to contaminate people and force itself into places where it doesn't fit far more often than rhythmic dancing does. Put another way, I've ended up stuck behind people trying to dance lyrically to the punchiest, fastest-paced, most rock 'n' roll D'Arienzo tunes far more often than I've been overtaken, rammed, or simply distracted by people bouncing around rhythmically to, say, a smooth Caló/Podestá piece.

Many beginners hear teachers say things like "take your time" and "pause" and "build your step," and interpret that to mean that all tango has to be danced in a very lyrical way . . . even the machine-gun-paced rhythmic pieces. Also, it's harder to develop the speed and control needed to really nail staccato movements. Legato ones permit a lot more covering bad technique with fudging. There's a reason why most demos by pros include one or two fast rhythmic pieces . . .

 

[TTanguero]

I find that it's close to totally subjective. To me, El Nene del Abasto and Bélgica are beautiful pieces, but I've had many tango friends call them awful.

Do they consider them awful, or hard to dance to?

I'd say Bélgica is a beautiful piece, but I'd want to listen to it one or two dozen times before I'd feel able to dance to it. El Nene del Abasto is another song I'd have to listen to plenty of times before I'd want to dance to it, though I'm not sure I'd see as much appeal in doing so.

 

[Rabbit]

ok, since we're on the subject of Belgica, the commonly played Biagi version of that song has... serious issues. There are notes that should be there that are inaudible when played in a milonga and the music doesn't make sense without them. This is because the orchestra played some of the 1 beats at an extremely quiet dynamic and it's lost in the transfer. As this is a song about war, I believe the intended effect was that of a gunshot on the preceding 4 and the cartridge quietly falling to the ground on 1.

This unconventional 4-1 works, but presenting it as 4-nothing is ugly, doesnt reflect the intent of the original composer or orchestra, and isn't tango.

If you can read music the original score is here.

Bélgica. Tango

www.todotango.com

 

[Dupont]

DJs are my most disliked players in the field. They have ruined so many evenings of mine.

The DJing often attracts people who are absolutely unqualified for this. I have heard songs cut in the middle of phrase to make them fit a certain duration limit. I have attempted Viennese waltzes played at 49, 63 and 68 mpm. I have seen laptops interrupting playback at random moments. I have listened to small loudspeakers pushed above their limits with terrible consequences for sound. Some DJs, even young ones, have damaged their hearing and don't realize how loud the music is.

But the worst is simply the bad music played.

 

[opendoor]

..Viennese waltzes played at 49, 63 and 68 mpm..

If you can specify the tempo, then it's no longer a Viennese waltz at all. The distinguishing feature is precisely the variable speed in the different sections—just think of the section called the coda. I would never call a waltz with a steady speed a Viennese waltz. By the way, I characterize the music in beats per minute (bpm). And I agree with you, only ignorant DJs use bars per minute (mpm).

 

[Miradamiranda]

If I wanted to dance to the drum of my washing machine, I'd have stayed home.

Haha, nice pun!

 

[Paja]

Many beginners hear teachers say things like "take your time" and "pause" and "build your step," and interpret that to mean that all tango has to be danced in a very lyrical way . . . even the machine-gun-paced rhythmic pieces. Also, it's harder to develop the speed and control needed to really nail staccato movements. Legato ones permit a lot more covering bad technique with fudging. There's a reason why most demos by pros include one or two fast rhythmic pieces . . .

Exactly. This is result of teaching figures, instead of technique and musicality. Such dancers dislike rhytmical tangos from 30's, because they cannot follow rhytm without solid inventory of small, quick combination of steps or if they need half of pista for caminada.

 

[itwillhappen]

DJs are my most disliked players in the field. They have ruined so many evenings of mine.

The DJing often attracts people who are absolutely unqualified for this. I have heard songs cut in the middle of phrase to make them fit a certain duration limit. I have attempted Viennese waltzes played at 49, 63 and 68 mpm. I have seen laptops interrupting playback at random moments. I have listened to small loudspeakers pushed above their limits with terrible consequences for sound. Some DJs, even young ones, have damaged their hearing and don't realize how loud the music is.

But the worst is simply the bad music played.

Is the DJ job at your community well paid so that participants can expect any kind of quality?

Here, the salary usually only covers at maximum two of the following three cost items:
* wages for an unskilled(!) job (excluding any preparation or travel time)
* travel costs and direct expenses
* the proportional costs for hardware, software, and tango pieces

 

[itwillhappen]

I did everything wrong again:
I started with a tanda from 1930 (for changing shoes), played mostly pieces from 1940 to 1950 in the first half, and then mostly pieces from 1950 to 2025 in the second half. There I also switched from 4T4V3M to 3T3V3M.
Of the 26 tandas, I mixed instrumental and vocal pieces in 13, and used different singers in 9.
And what can I say? I've never received so much positive feedback.

Orchestra distribution

Cnt  Orchestra                                                   
---  ------------------------------------------------------------
  8  Carlos Di Sarli                                             
  7  Juan D'Arienzo                                              
  6  Francisco Canaro                                            
  4  Alfredo De Angelis                                          
  4  Aníbal Troilo                                               
  4  Edgardo Donato                                              
  4  Miguel Caló                                                 
  4  Osvaldo Fresedo                                             
  4  Pedro Laurenz                                               
  4  Roberto Firpo                                               
  4  Rodolfo Biagi                                               
  4  Sexteto Cristal                                             
  4  Ángel D'Agostino                                            
  3  Donato Racciatti                                            
  3  Entre Mundos                                                
  3  Fulvio Salamanca                                            
  3  Héctor Varela                                               
  3  Orquesta Tipica Misteriosa                                  
  3  Osmar Maderna                                               
  3  Osvaldo Manzi                                               
  3  Osvaldo Pugliese                                            
  2  Los Herederos del Compás                                    
  2  Los Provincianos                                            
  1  Cacho Tirao                                                 
  1  Juan Félix Maglio                                           
  1  Las Bordonas                                                

Missed

  0  Orchestra                                                   
---  ------------------------------------------------------------
  0  Domingo Federico                                            
  0  Enrique Rodríguez                                           
  0  Florindo Sassone                                            
  0  Francisco Lomuto                                            
  0  José García                                                 
  0  Julio De Caro                                               
  0  Lucio Demare                                                
  0  Orquesta Típica Victor                                      
  0  Ricardo Malerba                                             
  0  Ricardo Tanturi                                             

Orchestra and singer distribution

 57  sung                                                        
 35  instrumental                                                

Cnt  Orchestra                                 Singer                                  
---  ----------------------------------------  ----------------------------------------
  1  Alfredo De Angelis                        Juan Carlos Godoy                       
  1  Alfredo De Angelis                        Juan Carlos Godoy, Lalo Martel          
  2  Alfredo De Angelis                        Juan Carlos Godoy, Roberto Mancini      
  4  Aníbal Troilo                                                                     
  1  Cacho Tirao                                                                       
  6  Carlos Di Sarli                                                                   
  2  Carlos Di Sarli                           Santiago Devin                          
  1  Donato Racciatti                          Olga Delgrossi                          
  2  Donato Racciatti                          Olga Delgrossi, Victor Ruiz             
  2  Edgardo Donato                            Horacio Lagos                           
  1  Edgardo Donato                            Horacio Lagos, Lita Morales             
  1  Edgardo Donato                            Horacio Lagos, Romeo Gavioli            
  2  Entre Mundos                                                                      
  1  Entre Mundos                              -choir-                                 
  2  Francisco Canaro                                                                  
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Carlos Galán                            
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Ernesto Famá                            
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Isabel De Grana, -choir-                
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Juan Carlos Rolón                       
  3  Fulvio Salamanca                          Armando Guerrico                        
  1  Héctor Varela                                                                     
  1  Héctor Varela                             Ernesto Herrera, Jorge Rolando          
  1  Héctor Varela                             Fernando Soler, Jorge Falcón            
  3  Juan D'Arienzo                            Alberto Echagüe                         
  4  Juan D'Arienzo                            Héctor Mauré                            
  1  Juan Félix Maglio                                                                 
  1  Las Bordonas                              Alberto Podestá                         
  2  Los Herederos del Compás                                                          
  2  Los Provincianos                          Luis Díaz                               
  2  Miguel Caló                                                                       
  1  Miguel Caló                               Alberto Podestá                         
  1  Miguel Caló                               Ranko Fujisawa                          
  1  Orquesta Tipica Misteriosa                                                        
  2  Orquesta Tipica Misteriosa                Eliana Sosa                             
  1  Osmar Maderna                                                                     
  1  Osmar Maderna                             Adolfo Rivas                            
  1  Osmar Maderna                             Adolfo Rivas, Raúl Aldao                
  4  Osvaldo Fresedo                           Ricardo Ruiz                            
  3  Osvaldo Manzi                                                                     
  2  Osvaldo Pugliese                                                                  
  1  Osvaldo Pugliese                          Alberto Morán                           
  1  Pedro Laurenz                                                                     
  1  Pedro Laurenz                             Alberto Del Campo                       
  2  Pedro Laurenz                             Carlos Bermúdez                         
  4  Roberto Firpo                                                                     
  4  Rodolfo Biagi                             Carlos Saavedra                         
  2  Sexteto Cristal                                                                   
  2  Sexteto Cristal                           Guillermo Rozenthuler                   
  4  Ángel D'Agostino                          Ángel Vargas

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I did everything wrong again:
I started with a tanda from 1930 (for changing shoes), played mostly pieces from 1940 to 1950 in the first half, and then mostly pieces from 1950 to 2025 in the second half. There I also switched from 4T4V3M to 3T3V3M.
Of the 26 tandas, I mixed instrumental and vocal pieces in 13, and used different singers in 9.
And what can I say? I've never received so much positive feedback.

Orchestra distribution

Cnt  Orchestra                                                  
---  ------------------------------------------------------------
  8  Carlos Di Sarli                                            
  7  Juan D'Arienzo                                             
  6  Francisco Canaro                                           
  4  Alfredo De Angelis                                         
  4  Aníbal Troilo                                              
  4  Edgardo Donato                                             
  4  Miguel Caló                                                
  4  Osvaldo Fresedo                                            
  4  Pedro Laurenz                                              
  4  Roberto Firpo                                              
  4  Rodolfo Biagi                                              
  4  Sexteto Cristal                                            
  4  Ángel D'Agostino                                           
  3  Donato Racciatti                                           
  3  Entre Mundos                                               
  3  Fulvio Salamanca                                           
  3  Héctor Varela                                              
  3  Orquesta Tipica Misteriosa                                 
  3  Osmar Maderna                                              
  3  Osvaldo Manzi                                              
  3  Osvaldo Pugliese                                           
  2  Los Herederos del Compás                                   
  2  Los Provincianos                                           
  1  Cacho Tirao                                                
  1  Juan Félix Maglio                                          
  1  Las Bordonas                                               

Missed

  0  Orchestra                                                  
---  ------------------------------------------------------------
  0  Domingo Federico                                           
  0  Enrique Rodríguez                                          
  0  Florindo Sassone                                           
  0  Francisco Lomuto                                           
  0  José García                                                
  0  Julio De Caro                                              
  0  Lucio Demare                                               
  0  Orquesta Típica Victor                                     
  0  Ricardo Malerba                                            
  0  Ricardo Tanturi                                            

Orchestra and singer distribution

 57  sung                                                       
 35  instrumental                                               

Cnt  Orchestra                                 Singer                                 
---  ----------------------------------------  ----------------------------------------
  1  Alfredo De Angelis                        Juan Carlos Godoy                      
  1  Alfredo De Angelis                        Juan Carlos Godoy, Lalo Martel         
  2  Alfredo De Angelis                        Juan Carlos Godoy, Roberto Mancini     
  4  Aníbal Troilo                                                                    
  1  Cacho Tirao                                                                      
  6  Carlos Di Sarli                                                                  
  2  Carlos Di Sarli                           Santiago Devin                         
  1  Donato Racciatti                          Olga Delgrossi                         
  2  Donato Racciatti                          Olga Delgrossi, Victor Ruiz            
  2  Edgardo Donato                            Horacio Lagos                          
  1  Edgardo Donato                            Horacio Lagos, Lita Morales            
  1  Edgardo Donato                            Horacio Lagos, Romeo Gavioli           
  2  Entre Mundos                                                                     
  1  Entre Mundos                              -choir-                                
  2  Francisco Canaro                                                                 
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Carlos Galán                           
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Ernesto Famá                           
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Isabel De Grana, -choir-               
  1  Francisco Canaro                          Juan Carlos Rolón                      
  3  Fulvio Salamanca                          Armando Guerrico                       
  1  Héctor Varela                                                                    
  1  Héctor Varela                             Ernesto Herrera, Jorge Rolando         
  1  Héctor Varela                             Fernando Soler, Jorge Falcón           
  3  Juan D'Arienzo                            Alberto Echagüe                        
  4  Juan D'Arienzo                            Héctor Mauré                           
  1  Juan Félix Maglio                                                                
  1  Las Bordonas                              Alberto Podestá                        
  2  Los Herederos del Compás                                                         
  2  Los Provincianos                          Luis Díaz                              
  2  Miguel Caló                                                                      
  1  Miguel Caló                               Alberto Podestá                        
  1  Miguel Caló                               Ranko Fujisawa                         
  1  Orquesta Tipica Misteriosa                                                       
  2  Orquesta Tipica Misteriosa                Eliana Sosa                            
  1  Osmar Maderna                                                                    
  1  Osmar Maderna                             Adolfo Rivas                           
  1  Osmar Maderna                             Adolfo Rivas, Raúl Aldao               
  4  Osvaldo Fresedo                           Ricardo Ruiz                           
  3  Osvaldo Manzi                                                                    
  2  Osvaldo Pugliese                                                                 
  1  Osvaldo Pugliese                          Alberto Morán                          
  1  Pedro Laurenz                                                                    
  1  Pedro Laurenz                             Alberto Del Campo                      
  2  Pedro Laurenz                             Carlos Bermúdez                        
  4  Roberto Firpo                                                                    
  4  Rodolfo Biagi                             Carlos Saavedra                        
  2  Sexteto Cristal                                                                  
  2  Sexteto Cristal                           Guillermo Rozenthuler                  
  4  Ángel D'Agostino                          Ángel Vargas

Interesting mix, although I probably would not have liked much of the second half. What does Cnt represent, the number of times that orchestra was played during the night?

 

[opendoor]

The first point (arrow) in this announcement from a well-known tango influencer really annoyed me. Why should DJs learn to decide a-priori what danceable music is? I, as a dancer, will decide that. There's an ideologically driven movement in tango that wants to ban certain music from the dance floor, Piazzolla for example. This music always draws me to the dance floor with a magical force, and in my role as DJ, dancers regularly congratulate me on playing Piazzolla.

 

[Brummbaer]

Why should DJs learn to decide a-priori what danceable music is?

Because, strangely, some don't dance, and some can neither read the floor nor their 'customers'. Also, as this thread illustrates, there can be amazingly poor choices (e.g. 'hidden gems', which should remain hidden). And, even if the DJ likes to dance to some offering, the 'customers' can have an alternative view.

 

[JournalInTime]

The first point (arrow) in this announcement from a well-known tango influencer really annoyed me. Why should DJs learn to decide a-priori what danceable music is?

I agree wholeheartedly.

The DJ absolutely should help dancers learn more about the music they dance to by sharing information on orquestas (plus any guests or vocalists), titles, and years. I don't mean a verbal announcement – that's annoying. I mean a tablet (or just cards) propped up at the DJ booth, a big screen mounted in the room, or a projector aimed at a wall. Every place where I dance regularly has screens and/or projectors.

The DJ absolutely should structure tandas so that they're internally consistent. It's bizarre to mix rhythms (tango, vals, milonga), not great to mix orquestas or eras unless the match is very close, and never really wise to mix wildly different moods, articulations (lyric vs. rhythmic), or tempos. It's fine for energy to tend in a specific direction within a tanda, though. And I don't share the common grumpiness about mixing pieces with and without singers . . . the singer is just another instrument, and each tango uses instruments differently anyway.

But the DJ absolutely should not try to "educate" dancers on what's "danceable." That's a personal decision with no objective standard behind it, like creator, year, rhythm, tempo, etc. Some dancers struggle with a simple, monotonous beat at a low tempo because they have no mental metronome, or just bad walking technique, but do fine with music that's full of tempo changes and rubato and such that hides their weak points. Other dancers struggle with highly syncopated music, or music that changes tempos. Many love more orchestral, late-era "radio tangos" because they're closer to music they know better; others prefer old-timey stuff. Who's right? Nobody.

Piazzolla for example. This music always draws me to the dance floor with a magical force, and in my role as DJ, dancers regularly congratulate me on playing Piazzolla.

My personal axe to grind is with the DJs who tell me that Salamanca and Varela have no place in the milonga, because they fall outside the "danceable" Golden Age, or who aren't even very openminded about the most complex Biagi, because they feel most dancers can't handle it. I've even had one talk about avoiding Pugliese because "most dancers can't do it justice." That's straight-up snobbery, and moves a DJ directly to my black list. The DJ's job is definitively not to adjust the difficulty slider to suit what they perceive as the mean skill level in the room, because "mean skill level" isn't even discoverable without a professional tango coach systematically analyzing the ronda for a couple of hours.

 

[JournalInTime]

Because, strangely, some don't dance

Well, they go right to the black list, too. That's like a chef with anosmia or an illiterate writer who dictates to a computer: They're in no place to judge the experience they're creating, so odds are excellent that they will do a poor job of it. Yes, they might do a good job, but that isn't the smart bet.

and some can neither read the floor nor their 'customers'.

Well, if that means "energy level" and "crowd density," it falls under the previous paragraph.

If that means "skill level," though, it's offensive for a DJ even to try. They aren't there as a dance coach. They are there to play music. They have no business judging level.

And, even if the DJ likes to dance to some offering, the 'customers' can have an alternative view.

Which doesn't really address the matter of "danceable," because that's personal in all cases. As a DJ, it's best to cast a big net and make sure you have something for everyone . . . including people who don't share your tastes. Avoiding Piazzolla or Varela or whatever isn't going to increase the odds that your "customers" will be happy; if anything, it's going to reduce those odds by reducing the breadth of the selection.

 

[Brummbaer]

Well, they go right to the black list, too. That's like a chef with anosmia or an illiterate writer who dictates to a computer: They're in no place to judge the experience they're creating, so odds are excellent that they will do a poor job of it. Yes, they might do a good job, but that isn't the smart bet

They ought to, but that's partly about DJs around for the job (no great number of milongas, as in your town), and that a few seem to have moved from 'dancer' (consumer) to DJ (provider). That's not just about the DJ who dances a few tandas and then rushes back.