What are the differences between Murga, Candombe and Milonga?
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Yeah, it can be fun if the leader doesn't get carried away too early. (which my partner always does)
Take your pick!
http://www.todotango.com/english/biblioteca/partituras/alfabetico.asp?letra=T
When working with the song titles on these pages, click on the arrow, not the name of the song!
http://www.todotango.com/english/las_obras/partitura.aspx?id=2165
http://www.todotango.com/english/las_obras/partitura.aspx?id=4360
Both written in the same time signature.
I'm not good enough at reading music to know if they are all that different.
http://www.todotango.com/english/biblioteca/partituras/alfabetico.asp?letra=T
When working with the song titles on these pages, click on the arrow, not the name of the song!
http://www.todotango.com/english/las_obras/partitura.aspx?id=2165
http://www.todotango.com/english/las_obras/partitura.aspx?id=4360
Both written in the same time signature.
I'm not good enough at reading music to know if they are all that different.
Well the music I'm thinking of is definitely NOT a tango. I can follow a score pretty well, but I can't read music well enough to know what it would sound like by looking at the score, so I'm just going to guess that the piece I'm thinking of is the "milonga" one.
(although I didn't see a time signature on the "tango" one and tango is 4/4 is it not(?) so I'm not sure why you are saying the 2 pieces are in the same time signature (2/4)... I guess you are better at judging from the notes? ... Can tango BE 2/4? I thought the time signature and rhythm was part of the definition of the various music styles)
Anyway, my question on Tango Negro is whether it is milonga, candombe (as people around here call it) murga or something else (cayennge?) THe one I'm thinking of is most certainly NOT tango (or vals.. just for the record
)
Angel HI
Well-Known Member
This is being debated in another thread. What denotes - constitutes - mandates that a particular dance be done to a particular song. Tango Negro has always been proposed as a milonga. I would agree. Candombe, the nusic, has a faster, more rhythmoc sound and feel. Can one dance candombe to Negro? Why not?
Just as further examples, everyone dances tango to Libertango, though study reveals that it was written as a milonga. Everyone dances tango to Santa Maria which is also a milonga. It even says so in the lyrics.
I whipped that one post off pretty fast, and may have read the time signature wrong.
This is a bit off topic, but, if you play a score that is written in 4/4 and emphasize the "down beat", or the up beat for that matter, doesn't it come out the same as 2/4?
Now, this is probably even more off thread, but relevant in my view..
In writing about blues, the author of "Escaping the Delta" goes to great lengths to document how the recording industry was largely responsible for music being pigeon holed as A or B or C or whatever. That because they had to be able to sell records to continue doing what they were doing.
I'm thinking the same thing about music from Argentina when it comes to music that had its genesis around the turn of the century and later.
Interesting, too, to read Jantango's recent comment about a wider variety of music being played at milongas in days gone by.
Anyhow, slowly, slowly, I'll be adding stuff here from the two books I have.
This is a bit off topic, but, if you play a score that is written in 4/4 and emphasize the "down beat", or the up beat for that matter, doesn't it come out the same as 2/4?
Now, this is probably even more off thread, but relevant in my view..
In writing about blues, the author of "Escaping the Delta" goes to great lengths to document how the recording industry was largely responsible for music being pigeon holed as A or B or C or whatever. That because they had to be able to sell records to continue doing what they were doing.
I'm thinking the same thing about music from Argentina when it comes to music that had its genesis around the turn of the century and later.
Interesting, too, to read Jantango's recent comment about a wider variety of music being played at milongas in days gone by.
Anyhow, slowly, slowly, I'll be adding stuff here from the two books I have.
The one by Vincente DeMarco is 2/4.
I looked at the other one by Belisario de Jesús García, and, although it's hard to see, it is listed as 2/4 for both vocal and piano.
The tango one has the notation "Tempo di Tango", which maybe is understood to mean play it slower, and with a tango feel?
So I guess the answer to this question
I'm pretty sure when I looked at the scores of other older tangos, I saw lots that were noted as 2/4.
I looked at the other one by Belisario de Jesús García, and, although it's hard to see, it is listed as 2/4 for both vocal and piano.
The tango one has the notation "Tempo di Tango", which maybe is understood to mean play it slower, and with a tango feel?
So I guess the answer to this question
would be "yes".
I'm pretty sure when I looked at the scores of other older tangos, I saw lots that were noted as 2/4.
Tango Bellingham
New Member
tangos: 2/4 or 4/8
milongas: 2/4
Sometimes at tango jams, people will use Ben Bogart's transcriptions of tango tunes, which he has put in 4/4, and changed the note values accordingly. So what was formerly 4 16-th notes becomes 4 8-th notes. Because of the change in notation, it makes it easier to sight-read.
Tango Bellingham
New Member
Depends on what you mean by "downbeat" - I've always used that to signify "1", and every band/orchestra I've every played in used it the same way, as in, "come in on the downbeat."
If you're dancing marcato in 2 (the classic "dos por quatro"), in 4/4 time it means your heel/foot is hitting the ground on beats 1 & 3, and the weak beats are 2 & 4. In 2/4, your heel/foot is hitting on 1 & 2, and the weak beats are the "ands". Easier to see in musical notation than explain verbally.
Yeah, one day I'm going to remember which is which.
Have you seen the book "Early Jazz" in which the author writes about African master drummers having a much greater ability to vary their timing and seem to think more in 1/8 notes rather than 1/4 notes?
And, HA, now I get to mention that I'm going to my first African dance class tonight. I'm expecting it to be like the jazz dance classes I took, a bunch of young girls... and teh "old" guy who can't shake his booty, etc to save his life. Kinda like Ty, the professional bull rider on DWTS.
Oh, the sacrifices I make to learn things.
Anyhow, are you going to be able to help us with this music stuff?
Have you seen the book "Early Jazz" in which the author writes about African master drummers having a much greater ability to vary their timing and seem to think more in 1/8 notes rather than 1/4 notes?
And, HA, now I get to mention that I'm going to my first African dance class tonight. I'm expecting it to be like the jazz dance classes I took, a bunch of young girls... and teh "old" guy who can't shake his booty, etc to save his life. Kinda like Ty, the professional bull rider on DWTS.
Oh, the sacrifices I make to learn things.
Anyhow, are you going to be able to help us with this music stuff?
So Tango is USUALLY 2/4?
That seems odd to me because the rhythm feels quite different to milonga or meringue. Both of which feel like 1,2,1,2,1,2... Tango feels more like 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4.... (the italics on 3 probably isn't showing well, but I was trying to give 3 some emphasis, but less than 1's emphasis)
So what is Fox Trot then? Because I always thought it was the same as Tango and was 4/4.
Tango Bellingham
New Member
Sure, whaddaya wanna know?
I was actually less concerned with what dance STEPS to do (since I'm just going to have to do whatever the leader leads) and more interested in how the music is defined.
For instance, ice dancers are given a "dance" they must do for a certain part of a competition. They can choose the music and choreography, but it must be that dance (ie: music). Part of what defines the dance is the time signature and the skaters must skate the rhythm, not the melody. They are penalized for either using music that is not the correct "dance" or for not skating the rhythm (or at least, these USED to be the rules... I can't keep up with the ever changing ISU rules now)
So I was looking to understand the musical definitions of milonga, murga, candombe (and now tango, since apparently its not in the time signature I thought)
Tango Bellingham
New Member
Yep - go to TodoTango and look at the scans of the old sheet music.
Do you want the musician's explanation, or the non-musician's explanation? The latter is more complicated....
Dunno - I don't dance Foxtrot.