What are the technical elements of a pleasant embrace?

they are true viejo milonguero stuff.
Yes! So true!

Many tango dancers grumble over movements that they believe were invented for shows and not originally found in tango. In their imagination, social dancers saw shows and started warping traditional tango with movements from them. In reality, show steps are – with few exceptions – exaggerations of dusty old social tango steps, made bigger and flashier to stand out in a show.

So, what's nontraditional isn't dancing the movements socially, but dancing them too big socially (and too soon after first seeing them – see below). Arguably, leaving them out even in their unexaggerated form is actually less traditional. ;)

The idea that everybody was super-conservative and kept both feet on the floor at all times, that men never showed off strength with lifts and drags and such, that women never showed off grace and flexibility with legs in the air, . . . it's rubbish. Any social dance that involves men and women inviting each other to dance together involves men showing off for women and women showing off for men about 20 seconds after it's invented. Look at any of the African dances that tango stole from.

The trick is that Back In The Day, people took more pride in mastering things before trying them. You hear about men being expected to put in 3 years of practice before hitting the milonga. Moving out of tango, my older family members talk about jive, swing, or whatever you want to call it being a thing where you'd perfect your moves in the garage or the basement for months or years before taking them to the dance hall.

What today's tango is bad at is this: The instant-gratification culture born from fast cars, social media, online shopping, overnight deliveries, and an app for everything has led to people taking no pride in mastery. They dance steps that used to be practiced for a long, long time about an hour after they see them on YouTube.
 
..Many tango dancers grumble over movements that they believe were invented for shows and not originally found in tango...
I agree with you, but my explanation is different. And in my case it always also triggers a grumbling, sometimes even a groan and horrified cries on this forum:
Originally the tango criollo was not danced in close embrace. No African, Afro-Argentinian or Afro-Brazilian community danced in close embrace. The abrazo is a European build.
The sensational figures all come from the black tango substrate. We also have sacadas, colgadas, levantadas, enganches in the Creole dances of Cuba and the Caribbean.
 
I have yet to see a someone do flashy moves that isn’t a runaway train in the ronda!
Yesterday's 'flashy' moves, with skill, can become tomorrow's standard 'advanced'. To do them, safely, in a confined, busy, space requires skill, training and practice. Unfortunately most of the cowboys on the pista don't believe in learning from instructors and practice to perfect such moves. And, of course, some will always be for the professionals and stage.
 
Whoever thought that was a good idea for social tango?
I am not going to name names, but all those incidents involved solely teachers/visiting "maestros" if I recall correctly.

Honestly, my conversations with her have just made me more disillusioned with dancers who teach - a lot of them take advantage of their position and status to cross lines that normal dancers wouldn't or couldn't, avoid responsibility for their actions, and proposition/sleep around of course. If what all she says is true, at least five of the couples I've seen around are made up of a young, attractive follower with "potential" and an experienced, older leader who's taken her under his wing, and initially started as practice partners.

It's permanently put me off any form of tango "teaching" I might have ever wanted to do in the distant future. At best I'll restrict myself to conveying what I believe tango should feel like, and the music.
 
Last edited:
I knew someone would come up with these so called “lifts” when I wrote. I don’t consider them strictly in the lift category. Never knew the terminology of sentadas, elevaciones, levantadas, you guys sure speak a different language :D I had to look up on google to map and visualize the terms to the figures.

Coming from salsa the lifts like neck drop etc are very dangerous on the dance floor. Seen a number of accidents on the social dance. Enthusiastic ladies throwing themselves into a dip almost taking down the guy with them is a near-fall-down experience every salsa leader been through. Most social dancers in salsa frown on dips, lifts, and tricks. It is too dangerous on a crowded dance floor.

I have done those so called “lifts” mentioned below in either a choreography/performance class or non-tango class on lifts and tricks A general principle common to all lifts, dips, and tricks is that there a high degree of technique involved, to an observer there is an illusion of force, in reality the lady generates the force/momentum, the man provides stable upright support without collapsing to the lady. If one of the two partners doesn’t understand the technique or way to execute it, it can become dangerous for both.

I don’t know any lady that I regularly dance with that will be able to properly do their part. First they won’t how to react. If they do react, they will likely bring you down. It works with ladies who have some performance experience, former dancers, former gymnasts, or those the have trained in following “lifts”.

Second part is chances of injury. Doing it wrong way by either partner can cause or aggravate injuries. Unless you know and trust that your partner knows their part, you are taking a risk.

Third which we discuss in other social dances where lifts and trucks are more common. You don’t one ever kind of injury your partner may be carrying. Pulling it off on an unsuspecting partner can cause you aggravate their existing injury. Someone look fit and flexible might have a back problem for example. That is main reason I don’t try any of these. I don’t me injury history and limitations of the person I am dancing with.

In class settings too, it takes time for ladies to master the techniques for the lifts. I am talking about younger ladies in their 20s and 30s who already are experienced dancers.




It depends on what you define as a "lift."

I'd count sentadas. They're found in tango back to the start and even considered by some to be basic tango vocabulary. They're less "not done" than "forgotten" . . . but so are ruedas, which nobody could describe as disruptive or dangerous They amount to low lifts to seat your partner on your hip, lap, or thigh. The simpler ones are very compact, and even the most extravagant ones are no more disruptive than the ganchos or empujadas they start life as.

I'd also count ballet-style elevaciones. Those are crazy at the milonga unless the floor is, say, 10% full. Once you have 10 times the space you need, you won't be endangering anyone outside your couple. As a person who has had a hernioplasty, I'd be endangering myself with most partners! (But see below.)

I learned both in stage-tango choreography classes. The teacher, a man close to me in weight, didn't let me lead them with women until I could execute them with him. (That was before the hernia!)

Will I lead a sentada? Sure, sometimes. It's a fun accent that you can do without breaking the abrazo or taking up extra space. You can convert any deep sacada or gancho into one, and execute it as up-sit-down on three counts without breaking musicality. The only partners with whom I'd do this are ones who know good sentada technique, though.

Will I lead an elevación? Rarely, as a finale, when there's only one other couple on the floor at the end of the night, and when my partner is one of a few regular partners who knows the proper form (typically meaning "current or former ballet dancer"), and whom I can literally pick up with just one arm because they weigh maybe 40-45 kg and I can one-arm that if I engage my chest and back. It's meant as a joke between the two of us, and we both participate in it with laughter.


Sometimes I do a smooth levantada. I place my right shoulder under her left armpit and lift the follower very slowly, turning counterclockwise. The follower then takes her steps in the air in slomo. This sometimes goes well with a ritardando or a violin solo. You hardly need any space for it and it looks so romantic.

I like sentadas but they usually hurt my left knee. So I leave them out although they are true viejo milonguero stuff.
 
Yes! So true!

Many tango dancers grumble over movements that they believe were invented for shows and not originally found in tango. In their imagination, social dancers saw shows and started warping traditional tango with movements from them. In reality, show steps are – with few exceptions – exaggerations of dusty old social tango steps, made bigger and flashier to stand out in a show.
Exactly. And problem with the classes is most of them so not show or teach how to incorporate them in a crowded milonga. Nor do they teach how disrespectful it is to other dancers around you, when you go wild with them.
So, what's nontraditional isn't dancing the movements socially, but dancing them too big socially (and too soon after first seeing them – see below). Arguably, leaving them out even in their unexaggerated form is actually less traditional. ;)
This is the angst of most who find themselves behind or ahead of either the half-skilled or arrogant dancers.
The idea that everybody was super-conservative and kept both feet on the floor at all times, that men never showed off strength with lifts and drags and such, that women never showed off grace and flexibility with legs in the air, . . . it's rubbish. Any social dance that involves men and women inviting each other to dance together involves men showing off for women and women showing off for men about 20 seconds after it's invented. Look at any of the African dances that tango stole from.
Yes but both should know their parts. Are you explicitly going to ask someone you don’t know if they know how to do certain lift? If you do ask, they may also be overestimating their capabilities.
The trick is that Back In The Day, people took more pride in mastering things before trying them. You hear about men being expected to put in 3 years of practice before hitting the milonga. Moving out of tango, my older family members talk about jive, swing, or whatever you want to call it being a thing where you'd perfect your moves in the garage or the basement for months or years before taking them to the dance hall.
Mediocrity is the norm in social dancing. It is just a fun thing. Why sweat practicing. That’s why average social dancer and average milonga dancer is mediocre. Yet they get rewarded for it. Therefore the
What today's tango is bad at is this: The instant-gratification culture born from fast cars, social media, online shopping, overnight deliveries, and an app for everything has led to people taking no pride in mastery. They dance steps that used to be practiced for a long, long time about an hour after they see them on YouTube.

Yep!!
 
I knew someone would come up with these so called “lifts”..
Didn't you bring up this topic?
..This is the angst of most who find themselves behind.. the half-skilled or arrogant dancers..
You raise an important aspect here. Since there is no binding syllabus in social tango, the student must define his or her next goal in tango. I still remember this stage very clearly: with my (paper!) notepad I analyzed the outstanding dancers in my community. There was no material on YT back then. But concerning me it was fascination, not angst.
...Mediocrity is the norm in social dancing. It is just a fun thing..
And exactly this is the crucial point. The development already began years before the pandemic: the good and experienced dancers avoid the milonga! I usually arrange to meet up with my peer group for the cinema, restaurant, concert or picnic, but never for one of our milongas in town. My former dance partners are no longer interested in milongas (unless they have become tango teachers themselves and organize them). What you got to know as milonga actually is no milonga any more. The guests of the milongas no longer represent the community in its entirety. That's why there are no longer any tangible role models outside of YT.
 
Last edited:
Oh, that's simply nuts. Whoever thought that was a good idea for social tango?

I blame the stage dancers that occasionally give workshops at festivals and the like. I agree that lifts shouldn't be part of social dancing for the safety reasons mentioned on this page.
 

talking about lifts and tricks to NOT try at home (or at the milonga):

These guys are top professional real stage performers. They happen to also be awesome social dancers.
This was last night at La Nacional in NYC, maybe some of you were there?

edit: sorry, link didn’t work
or maybe it does, if you click on it to view on facebook
 
Last edited:
It's permanently put me off any form of tango "teaching" I might have ever wanted to do in the distant future. At best I'll restrict myself to conveying what I believe tango should feel like, and the music.
I hear you, but there are professionals who can help you with things like technique, and sometimes style. Those are worth working towards.
 
I hear you, but there are professionals who can help you with things like technique, and sometimes style. Those are worth working towards.
Oh no, I meant myself teaching others. I'm still going to take the occasional private for technique and some fundamentals I want to improve even further, but honestly I feel that at my current state, it's the lack of a consistent practice partner that is holding me back from a greater rate of improvement.
 
I'm particularly interested in hearing from people who have worked on this explicitly.

What did you actually do, change, improve, or focus on to make your embrace more pleasant for the other person?

Also, how could you tell whether it was working?
I took three years of embodied yoga. The therapist squeezed tension out of me like wringing water from a sponge. My frame became more relaxed. One woman told my teacher that my embrace had all the warmth of a straitjacket. No complaints since I had the yoga.
 

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top