What are you currently 'working on' in A.T.?-Vol.II

[Mario7]

Leaning forward and pushing against a woman who is sharing her weight is like dancing into a strong wind and one of the most ecstatic experiences I've ever had.
I love it when a woman is willing to take the risk and give me her weight.

 

[dchester]

Unfortunately, I got plenty of feedback from women that "the other guys" did not want them sharing any substantial amount of weight. Rather they were asked to "be on their own axis".
So, many men are "afraid" (come on guys, man up) of women who share weight, it seems to me.
And let's not confuse this with the woman actually "hanging" on the man with her left arm over his right should. Or did I just do that/

I actually enjoy it.

 

[opendoor]

... to get back on the dancefloor. Had been months now, not weeks, as I once thought when my knee cracked. Feel like an absolute beginner now. But the chondroitine injections into the joint cleft seem to help. Some say, pausing helps, you will be better than before, when you return. But I feel as I if starting form the very first beginning.

 

[Mario7]

I just completed an hour and 8 mins dancing alone for my practica at home. I set up 5 tandas 4 songs each and gave a different emphasis to each one; ie: walking six different highways, dancing with Cw,CCW giros in crossed and parallel, walks to the cross and all variations, cross overs to woman's left side, the baldosa, dancing in a small area, dancing in a large area, etc.. it worked! I was never bored and always started the next tanda with enthusiasm!

 

[New in NY]

Forward walks - STILL - When I think about what I am doing, definitely getting better, so that's improvement. But if I let myself get lost in the music, they are still pretty bad.

Ganchos - improving slightly, making sure my leg is actually on the leader's leg

Forward and back boleos - really really bad. Teacher helped me to realize how loose I need to be in the hip as I did not even realize that I was tensing the muscles in my upper leg. But still my react to the lead is slow, the execution and technique is just messy and I think this is going to take a long long time to be halfway decent.

 

[Light Sleeper]

Leaders? Would you sit back in order to help with downward pressure from a follower or would you try to counterbalance her by going towards her more?

My point is that it could very well have been a problem with him, because his solution makes me go "hmmmm..." :-? :eyebrow:

Thanks Zoopsia, David, Mario and Steve.

That was my thought, Zoopsia, but when I actually chatted about it, he said we weren't sharing weight but it struck me he was asking to. Hmm, I'm not sure I see the point of pushing your chests together if you're not going to share weight. It felt strange to me to touch chests but not share weight that much, i found it unbalancing, maybe I just need to think about it a bit more (probably!). So, I feel he made a decision to 'do it his way' by not sharing more of his weight when he could've made a decision the other way.

God, tango is such an individual thing!

 

[Mario7]

Thanks Zoopsia, David, Mario and Steve.
Hmm, I'm not sure I see the point of pushing your chests together if you're not going to share weight. It felt strange to me to touch chests but not share weight that much, i found it unbalancing, !

I think that you are touching on a general problem with this. One that
is not addressed much outside of BsAs.. I'm a beginner (2 1/2yrs) so I can't talk like I 'know' about this but it seems to me also that there is a giant contradiction in this situation..up close but not really...ugh very unbalancing if you ask me.

 

[Peaches]

Thanks Zoopsia, David, Mario and Steve.

That was my thought, Zoopsia, but when I actually chatted about it, he said we weren't sharing weight but it struck me he was asking to. Hmm, I'm not sure I see the point of pushing your chests together if you're not going to share weight. It felt strange to me to touch chests but not share weight that much, i found it unbalancing, maybe I just need to think about it a bit more (probably!). So, I feel he made a decision to 'do it his way' by not sharing more of his weight when he could've made a decision the other way.

God, tango is such an individual thing!

I dunno. I like close embrace (without sharing weight) when there's a strong chest-to-chest connection. IME/IMO, it makes the leads feel so much more clear (assuming the leads are clear to begin with..). I love that feeling of solidity and one-ness that happens when it works well. It's such a great feeling of security, and a feeling like my partner is truly "present" in the embrace. Perhaps it's just because this was how I was first taught.

I'm much less a fan of standing very close--perhaps even chest-to-chest--with no forward pressure into each other. I always end up feeling like I'm searching the entire time for that connection, but whenever I get close the guy moves off from it. I just find it frustrating. I'd rather dance in full-out open embrace than dance close but without pressure.

OTOH, sometimes dancing is dancing...which is almost always better than sitting!

But you're right...AT is so incredibly personal.

 

[JohnEm]

I like close embrace (without sharing weight) when there's a strong chest-to-chest connection. IME/IMO, it makes the leads feel so much more clear (assuming the leads are clear to begin with..). I love that feeling of solidity and one-ness that happens when it works well. It's such a great feeling of security, and a feeling like my partner is truly "present" in the embrace. Perhaps it's just because this was how I was first taught.

That's a good description from the other side of the embrace yet somewhat similarly applies to me as a leader. The leader equally needs that forward pressure returned - it has to be mutually reinforcing. And how I prefer the word pressure to weight as a description. If the lady doesn't enter the embrace with the same commitment it can feel like she is running away from you.

And while you need a clear lead, the leader needs a positive follow. And by that I mean she willingly follows the chest, doesn't twist away when something is unfamiliar and allows her free leg to go wherever her body displacement tells her she needs to place it for the next axis/point of balance.

I'm much less a fan of standing very close--perhaps even chest-to-chest--with no forward pressure into each other. I always end up feeling like I'm searching the entire time for that connection, but whenever I get close the guy moves off from it. I just find it frustrating. I'd rather dance in full-out open embrace than dance close but without pressure.

I certainly know guys who don't or won't dance with ladies who don't commit to the connection in the embrace. While I haven't reached that stage . . . I can see a time. Open hold just doesn't do it for me - there are other different dances for that - so it has to be the much less satisfactory upright close hold.

 

[Light Sleeper]

OTOH, sometimes dancing is dancing...which is almost always better than sitting!

But you're right...AT is so incredibly personal.

Ha ha, maybe right in the first sentence! I think I need a total break for a bit!

The second sentence - amen, sister! Mind you, I think other dance forms can be... but AT is *so* intimate ..

 

[dchester]

Thanks Zoopsia, David, Mario and Steve.

That was my thought, Zoopsia, but when I actually chatted about it, he said we weren't sharing weight but it struck me he was asking to. Hmm, I'm not sure I see the point of pushing your chests together if you're not going to share weight. It felt strange to me to touch chests but not share weight that much, i found it unbalancing, maybe I just need to think about it a bit more (probably!). So, I feel he made a decision to 'do it his way' by not sharing more of his weight when he could've made a decision the other way.

God, tango is such an individual thing!

That is one of the attributes of Villa Urquiza style. The chests touch without sharing weight (at least not much).

 

[Captain Jep]

I'd rather dance in full-out open embrace than dance close but without pressure.

Absolutely!

But you're right...AT is so incredibly personal.

Is this a bad thing? (in the way you presumably mean it?)

 

[Peaches]

Is this a bad thing? (in the way you presumably mean it?)

No, not at all. T'was just agreeing with Light Sleeper.

 

[Peaches]

That's a good description from the other side of the embrace yet somewhat similarly applies to me as a leader. The leader equally needs that forward pressure returned - it has to be mutually reinforcing.

It took me a good while to figure this out. I'd dance in close embrace, with chest-to-chest contact, but it took me a while to really understand the forward pressure thing. I was wary of being "heavy" in the embrace, or of being unresponsive, or any number of negative things. I had one lesson in particular where the necessity of actively pressing into my partner was stressed, and it made a huge difference.

Now, as to guys' preferences with it...who knows. Some will meet me halfway, some seem to pull away. I try to accomodate various preferences as they seem to me, but I can only do so much. Beyond that, there's not much I can do. But very few guys seem to really keep a strong connection with a lot of forward pressure (regardless of if we share weight or not)...quite a shame.

And how I prefer the word pressure to weight as a description.

Well, without getting intto a whole huge discussion on it and hijacking the thread, to me the two terms mean very different things, and relate to two different styles. IME there's weight sharing (apilado), and non-weight sharing (Salon, with forward pressure created without a sharing of weight).

 

[JohnEm]

Peaches, I'm going to be very careful here!

It took me a good while to figure this out. I'd dance in close embrace, with chest-to-chest contact, but it took me a while to really understand the forward pressure thing. I was wary of being "heavy" in the embrace, or of being unresponsive, or any number of negative things. I had one lesson in particular where the necessity of actively pressing into my partner was stressed, and it made a huge difference.

Yes you have it. Being heavy comes from confusing pressing with hanging or from losing control of your own balance. It still must be you making your own axis and not relying on your partner putting you there. Now that's heavy!

. . . very few guys seem to really keep a strong connection with a lot of forward pressure (regardless of if we share weight or not)...quite a shame.

Oh, please dance with me!

Well, without getting intto a whole huge discussion on it and hijacking the thread, to me the two terms mean very different things, and relate to two different styles. IME there's weight sharing (apilado), and non-weight sharing (Salon, with forward pressure created without a sharing of weight).

I thought anything we're working on is ok in this thread so I'll bring it back on topic in a mo.

In my opinion any difference is a difference only of degree. We get confused by the show/stage tango images of posed gross leans but they themselves are based on the off-axis moves of carousels, enganches, and volcadas etc. And off-axis means that you as a follower are actually having some of your weight being supported by your partner. But neither of us would want to walk like that.

But that is different. There is only so far you can go in apilado and the extent of the lean depends on the individual muscle strength (core, back, legs, thighs, ankles, feet) and control of the partners to retain their own ability to create axis/balance as they walk so neither feels heavy to the other.

And yes, of course we've had this discussion before but in my view we agree more than disagree and any disagreement is only about degree and I'm quite happy to agree to disagree about such a subtlety. Being a good follow, I'm sure you can follow that!

Meanwhile if you watch video of milongueros their lean varies according to what they are doing and it rarely is exaggerated. But the best tip forward into the initiation of the walk and a good follow with a good forward and solid connection can really be driven from the chest before the leader has even moved a foot. That's what I'm always conscious of and try and make work with those few followers who connect in that way.

It sounds, Peaches, as if you may be one. Hurray!