What are you working on in AT Episode III: The Return of the Tanguero

[Subliminal]

Previous "What are you working on?" threads. (For the newcomers.)

Part 1:
http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=12454

Part 2:
http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=35223

Lately I've been practicing ganchos again. I have a couple that are fairly social friendly, and can be done in close embrace. It seems the key is the follower's balance... the more in tune with her balance I am, the better the movement. The gancho just "happens" instead of being lead.

I also experimented with Single Axis Turns recently. Felt really awkward at first. I think I have the concept down, but it's hard to make the "swoosh" part feel smooth. Very unnatural feeling right now.

Walking: It all comes back to walking. Lately I've come up with a theory on the walk, and I am looking for ways to test it out. I've come to the conclusion that there are at least two major schools of walking (and probably as many subcategories as there are dancers in the world). The first school is the full change of weight on the beat, with no weight remaining at that moment on the trailing leg. The second school seems to be more oriented toward having a bit of shared weight between your legs on the beat, and a more even fluid step. (Though it's certainly possible to be fluid with the first method, I think you get the characteristic slight up and down motion.)

My theory is that it's possible to dance both styles, and use the amount of weight you transfer on the beat as a stylistic element in musicality. Also, a leader who understands the different kinds of walks could lead the follower to step in a different way depending on the move... for example, ganchos and sacadas are a little easier to pull off if the follower is using even steps instead of sudden steps in the turn.

I also wonder if this is why some followers feel different depending on who they've danced with recently. If they were dancing with an even-stepping leader, and they switch to a sudden-stepping leader, he might notice a difference until she "resets".

Whew. So as always, a lot to think about and work on.

 

[Subliminal]

Single Axis Turns and Volcadas.

Wheeeee!

 

[opendoor]

One year ago I had an accident with my left knee and I am still concerned with building up muscles and resilience. What still does not work: standing on my left leg for several seconds, not to mention enrosques.
The good thing about it, again I can dance... :banana:

.. The second school seems to be more oriented toward having a bit of shared weight between your legs on the beat..

Does it work and can you keep in time at once?

Look, Adrian is exactly on the beat
[YT]TpHouXWd_n8[/YT]
youtube.com/watch?v=TpHouXWd_n8

 

[Subliminal]

I would say Adrian is doing the first style of walking from what I can see. He is leaving his leg behind as a style element, but from what I can tell there is no weight on it.

 

[opendoor]

Is it a style question, too? Thought it got only to do with elegance. Heel vs ball tread might be a style question. VU, Todaro, and stage tango followers use to step with the ball first, whereas Naveiraeans use their heels.

 

[Subliminal]

Is it a style question, too? Thought it got only to do with elegance. Heel vs ball tread might be a style question. VU, Todaro, and stage tango followers use to step with the ball first, whereas Naveiraeans use their heels.

Hmm, it's hard to say. There's certainly a more flowing even movement to the second way of walking. Lemme see if I can find a video example... I think these two are related. Though both switch to the sharper walk on accents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or11IqkBCpM

Look at the very beginning of this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Lywh_SgN8

ETA: It seems there is less up and down movement with the second walk. the first has the characteristic rise and fall we've talked about before.

 

[opendoor]

..Look at the very beginning of this one.

Please spare me to analyze, wouldn´t be polite

It seems there is less up and down movement with the second walk.

Pablo is always a challenge, because he mixes rather traditional and modern elements. Concerning the accentuation of the walk: there is a short passage from 0:20 on really with the down beat in the middle of the step. Really curious, but I think it is a marcatto, and he is aware of it.

By the way thanks for the latter, hadn´t got it yet.

 

[Zoopsia59]

There's certainly a more flowing even movement to the second way of walking

I haven't had time to study the videos you posted, but my gut reaction is that this needn't be true. The only difference is where your body is on the beat (over the new leg or somewhat even distributed between legs), so I can't think of any theoretical reason why both can't be done smoothly and evenly. Both positions (evenly distributed and weight transferred) are something you're going to hit in both methods of timing the walk, so why would one necessarily involve more up and down or a less smooth result?

Like I say... that's my theoretical response.. I'm going to have to actually walk both (and maybe get someone else to film) to determine if the theory matches the realities inherent in moving.

(After all, theoretically you can mix blue and red paint and get purple, but in reality, if you want a really vibrant purple you have to spend extra money to buy a quality pre-made pigment, because mixing blue and red often yields a murky greyed out purple... So theory has only limited usefulness)

 

[Subliminal]

I haven't had time to study the videos you posted, but my gut reaction is that this needn't be true. The only difference is where your body is on the beat (over the new leg or somewhat even distributed between legs), so I can't think of any theoretical reason why both can't be done smoothly and evenly. Both positions (evenly distributed and weight transferred) are something you're going to hit in both methods of timing the walk, so why would one necessarily involve more up and down or a less smooth result?

Like I say... that's my theoretical response.. I'm going to have to actually walk both (and maybe get someone else to film) to determine if the theory matches the realities inherent in moving.

(After all, theoretically you can mix blue and red paint and get purple, but in reality, if you want a really vibrant purple you have to spend extra money to buy a quality pre-made pigment, because mixing blue and red often yields a murky greyed out purple... So theory has only limited usefulness)

Hmm. I think... think... that the first walk has the characteristic up-down motion because the moment when the couple transfers the weight is somewhat accelerated; the whole "transfer your axis all at once" method. I think the second method is more about moving through the beat evenly. You must have to soften your knees a tad bit more.

Like you said, only theory right now. Still trying to figure it out, whether there's a real difference.

 

[Subliminal]

Following. Ribcage up, right elbow down. Knees together, gosh darnit!. Also, discovered something interesting while following the other day. Staring over the shoulder of my partner, I don't have as good a connection. But staring directly at them, I gain more focus. (I am not following their lead with my eyes, it is literally a focus thing. When I'm staring at them I'm more in tune with their body lead.) Maybe it's something I'll get over.

(Can't close my eyes... a large part of my balance comes from sight. Maybe if I practiced with eyes closed, but it's not an option right now.)

 

[AndaBien]

...When I'm staring at them I'm more in tune with their body lead.) Maybe it's something I'll get over.

(Can't close my eyes... a large part of my balance comes from sight. Maybe if I practiced with eyes closed, but it's not an option right now.)

Gaining more focus is something you want to get over?

I heard of an exercise that was interesting to me; shower with your eyes closed, to gain more awareness of your balance.

 

[Subliminal]

Gaining more focus is something you want to get over?

I heard of an exercise that was interesting to me; shower with your eyes closed, to gain more awareness of your balance.

Well, no, but not having to stare at the leader would be good.

The showering thing isn't a bad idea. I've also heard another way is to stand on the balls of your feet, then close your eyes and try to stay up.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Heel vs ball tread might be a style question. VU, Todaro, and stage tango followers use to step with the ball first, whereas Naveiraeans use their heels.

Up until a couple of weeks ago, I was solidly in the "heel" camp of dancing - I felt it was more natural, and that it worked better for me.

I then had a private lesson with Ricardo Oria, and one thing he suggested was that I try ball-first.

I gave it a go, and the feedback from followers has been very positive; I now feel to them like I'm dancing more on the beat, and also much smoother.

So whilst I wouldn't want to evangelise one way over another, I think that, at the very least, people should try to learn both methods and decide which one works best for them, rather than (like me) have a bias without even trying the other way.

 

[bordertangoman]

I got the same advice from ALejandro; sometimes its just a case of pointing the foot but still arriving on the heel, but in side steps I would arrive on the ball of the foot which allows the whole foot to be active in the step

 

[JohnEm]

The showering thing isn't a bad idea. I've also heard another way is to stand on the balls of your feet, then close your eyes and try to stay up.

Ooh!! That's disorientating! Must try harder, and that's from someone
who has perfected balancing on the ball of one foot. I'd no idea that
eyesight was playing such an important part.

Oh, and BTW. Heard from a leader at a recent milonga who was practising
"moves" with his partner in the middle "I can't do the move without
opening my eyes". Err, whatt? Perhaps I misheard, I do hope so.