What Is Tango Doing Right/Wrong: Recruiting and Retaining

[JournalInTime]

I would say 239 as #2 has nothing to do with tango

Also a fair bit of "I dislike tango because it's full of people older than me. Also, because it takes too long to learn and become good at." Hmm . . . maybe there's a relationship between years of age and years of practice?

Quite a bit of "I dislike tango because it wasn't the pick-up scene I expected," too. Perhaps if they want to meet romantic partners, a dating site or event would be quicker, less costly, and more successful? Like, who dishes out piles of cash for special lessons, shoes, and events mostly not for reasons related to the activity?

So many reasons here boil down to bizarro-world expectations that existed in the commentator's mindset before tango ever entered the chat. I wonder if any of these people ever tried a structured activity or had any clue about what "social dance" meant before beginning tango.

The legit reasons seem to be the ones related to medical issues, moving, or having no partners in the area . . . basically, physical and logistical problems. Most of the psychosocial stuff sounds like high-school drama or idealism.

 

[tangoing]

Also a fair bit of "I dislike tango because it's full of people older than me. Also, because it takes too long to learn and become good at." Hmm . . . maybe there's a relationship between years of age and years of practice?

Quite a bit of "I dislike tango because it wasn't the pick-up scene I expected," too. Perhaps if they want to meet romantic partners, a dating site or event would be quicker, less costly, and more successful? Like, who dishes out piles of cash for special lessons, shoes, and events mostly not for reasons related to the activity?

So many reasons here boil down to bizarro-world expectations that existed in the commentator's mindset before tango ever entered the chat. I wonder if any of these people ever tried a structured activity or had any clue about what "social dance" meant before beginning tango.

The legit reasons seem to be the ones related to medical issues, moving, or having no partners in the area . . . basically, physical and logistical problems. Most of the psychosocial stuff sounds like high-school drama or idealism.

I think for a lot of people including me, even though finding a romantic partner through tango isn't their #1 goal in the dance (maybe around goal #3-5ish for me), it would be nice. As such, I think having a decent number of people of the opposite sex and similar age is a definite factor in the dance. I doubt many people would dance if the majority of their dances are with people of their own sex (despite the rise in female leads).

A majority of my dances are actually with a lot older followers, but I still try to go to the younger/mixed milongas rather than the ones completely full of followers 20+ years my age. Especially since even if a follower is a beginner but young, they're still somewhat mobile. Dancing with a older beginner follower a lot of times they're severely limited by their mobility so you're just barely shuffling around the dance floor and dancing very defensively.

 

[Bailango]

Here are listed around 240 reasons why people stopped dancing tango (from 2016).

A Hundred and One Reasons to Quit Tango | TangoClay

tangoclay.us

I read first 20 comments and it is exactly what I expected. Unfriendliness of tango is number one reason people quit.

People trying to get into tango and some who are in Tango keep complaining about unfriendliness and snobbishness at milongas. Most tango dancers keep defending that like it is a feature and not a buy. I think tango community has internalized the snobbishness’s that they no longer see or recognized it at milongas unless it is outrageous type.

 

[Bailango]

Also a fair bit of "I dislike tango because it's full of people older than me. Also, because it takes too long to learn and become good at." Hmm . . . maybe there's a relationship between years of age and years of practice?

To be expected. But those are not the top reasons. Most good dancers at tango started early (in 20s and 30s). Very few who started in 40s and are good 10 years later. Apart from exceptions.

 

[Bailango]

Especially since even if a follower is a beginner but young, they're still somewhat mobile.

And some are too mobile than necessary

Dancing with a older beginner follower a lot of times they're severely limited by their mobility so you're just barely shuffling around the dance floor and dancing very defensively.

If we are saying old as in above 60 then I only find these limitations in about 10% of the followers.

Those in 40s and 50s are not dancing defensively.

As far as learning tango goes, I have said before:

- the younger are more adventurous, less fearful and more willing to try. In context of social tango dancing.

- the older (40 and above, both men and women) are circumspect, require frequent validation, and less likely to want to jump at the deep end of the pool.

 

[Rabbit]

Seems like half the complaints are that they don't want to dance with anyone because skill level in the local community is too low and the other half of the complaints are that no one wants to dance with them because the skill level is too high

 

[opendoor]

..because skill level in the local community is too low and the other half of the complaints are that no one wants to dance with them because the skill level is too high..

Is that the very meaning of..

2. Tango attracts fantasists. I’m a realist

 

[Brummbaer]

The basic problem is people coupled with how any social system gets manipulated.

Learning AT, and milongas, needs to be welcoming and fun.

 

[TTanguero]

I would say 239 as #2 has nothing to do with tango

A lot of the responses had little to do with tango specifically. There were a whole bunch of 'I met a romantic partner who didn't dance/didn't want me dancing with other men/women' posts, for example.

 

[pianistamediano]

Seems like half the complaints are that they don't want to dance with anyone because skill level in the local community is too low and the other half of the complaints are that no one wants to dance with them because the skill level is too high

"Skill level" is just a polite euphemism for everything underneath the surface; think attractiveness, popularity/social status, sex, whatever. On top of all that, most dancers usually have a healthy dose of I want to dance with him/her because they look good dancing.

And even then, I'd surmise that that last statement is again code speak for I'd enjoy/look good dancing with him/her. Because humans are inherently self-centred.

As above, so below; tango only reflects and aggrandises the best and worst in people! As does essentially every single social dance out there.

 

[Rabbit]

"Skill level" is just a polite euphemism for everything underneath the surface; think attractiveness, popularity/social status, sex, whatever.

Well yeah, but I didn't write the complaints. Maybe the underlying issue is that most people have an inflated opinion of their own skill / desirability.

 

[Tango Distance]

... I wonder if any of these people ever tried a structured activity or had any clue about what "social dance" meant before beginning tango. ...

You had to drill down a couple of levels to see the survey numbers, rather than just the comments.
Why I Quit Tango! Created by Clay & Beth Anne

A few highlights:

• 37% Tango was their first dance experience, 63% had done other dances.
• Cumulative histogram of how long Argentine Tango dance lessons (95% had done 3 or more months of structured activity, dance lessons)
  • 45% 3+ years
  • 75% 1+ years
  • 87% 6+ months
  • 95% 3+ months
  • 100% 1+ lessons

List of "Why did you quit Tango" responses:

Too exclusionary/cliquish	54.43% 307
Too elitist	37.94% 214
No one to dance with (ratio of women to men not balanced)	37.94% 214
Couldn't find someone to practice with.	32.62% 184
Tango community divisive politics	26.95% 152
Found dance partners to be too critical or rude	26.77% 151
Local community too small	16.13% 91
Too much time and effort to get proficient (too difficult)	14.36% 81
Lifestyle change such as: moved, got married, had children or lost job	14.18% 80
Wrong age group or political/social demographic	13.83% 78
Too expensive	13.83% 78
Ended partnership with significant other/dance partner	10.28% 58
Availabililty of instruction too far away or too infrequent	10.28% 58
Too few milongas and/or practicas locally	9.75% 55
Pace of instruction too slow, tedious and laborious	9.40% 53
Close embrace too intimate/uncomfortable	6.56% 37
Didn't like instructor	6.38% 36
Didn't like the music	3.90% 22

The survey is self selected, and I suppose people who were more unhappy were more likely to respond. On the flip side, I have anecdotally seen people not get asked to dance a lot in Tango, but in my experience everyone dances in Swing, Blues, and Contra. Also, I have met very few Tango-as-first-dance people, they almost all seem to have done other dances first. I met maybe 1 or 2 people in Blues, Contra, and Swing who had dropped Tango to do another dance.

Another thought: How different is the Argentine Tango demographic from other dances? Anecdotally from my personal observations, Tango dancers are older and more likely to be divorced (which could be a consequence of being older and nothing else). Tango dancers seem to put in many more hours of lessons and practice than Blues and Contra dancers, and maybe a little more than Swing.

 

[Brummbaer]

You had to drill down a couple of levels to see the survey numbers, rather than just the comments.
Why I Quit Tango! Created by Clay & Beth Anne

A few highlights:

• 37% Tango was their first dance experience, 63% had done other dances.
• Cumulative histogram of how long Argentine Tango dance lessons (95% had done 3 or more months of structured activity, dance lessons)
  • 45% 3+ years
  • 75% 1+ years
  • 87% 6+ months
  • 95% 3+ months
  • 100% 1+ lessons

List of "Why did you quit Tango" responses:

Too exclusionary/cliquish	54.43% 307
Too elitist	37.94% 214
No one to dance with (ratio of women to men not balanced)	37.94% 214
Couldn't find someone to practice with.	32.62% 184
Tango community divisive politics	26.95% 152
Found dance partners to be too critical or rude	26.77% 151
Local community too small	16.13% 91
Too much time and effort to get proficient (too difficult)	14.36% 81
Lifestyle change such as: moved, got married, had children or lost job	14.18% 80
Wrong age group or political/social demographic	13.83% 78
Too expensive	13.83% 78
Ended partnership with significant other/dance partner	10.28% 58
Availabililty of instruction too far away or too infrequent	10.28% 58
Too few milongas and/or practicas locally	9.75% 55
Pace of instruction too slow, tedious and laborious	9.40% 53
Close embrace too intimate/uncomfortable	6.56% 37
Didn't like instructor	6.38% 36
Didn't like the music	3.90% 22

The survey is self selected, and I suppose people who were more unhappy were more likely to respond. On the flip side, I have anecdotally seen people not get asked to dance a lot in Tango, but in my experience everyone dances in Swing, Blues, and Contra. Also, I have met very few Tango-as-first-dance people, they almost all seem to have done other dances first. I met maybe 1 or 2 people in Blues, Contra, and Swing who had dropped Tango to do another dance.

Another thought: How different is the Argentine Tango demographic from other dances? Anecdotally from my personal observations, Tango dancers are older and more likely to be divorced (which could be a consequence of being older and nothing else). Tango dancers seem to put in many more hours of lessons and practice than Blues and Contra dancers, and maybe a little more than Swing.

It's interesting, espeygiven the self-selection bias, but the key question remains: What is 'tango' doing to recruit and retain?

​

 

[opendoor]

...but the key question remains: What is 'tango' doing to recruit and retain?

This may be the thread title, but I don't believe in the tango scene's mission to preserve itself.

Let tango die if no one longs for it. And by the way, does tango even have a unique selling point?

-Close embrace also exists in a number of other dances.
-Social dancing exists elsewhere, too.
-Community building isn't exclusive either.
-The overlap between dancers and musicians also exists in other scenes.
-The tourism offering is definitely larger; there are summer camps, tango holidays, encuentros, festivals, and marathons.

 

[Brummbaer]

And by the way, does tango even have a unique selling point?

• Rejection and humiliation for those who don't get sufficient in their normal life.
• Ganchos

But it's easy finding negatives.