What is tango doing wrong: #1 - tandas

[TTanguero]

But that's an artifact of the tanda system. If the standard was that there wasn't any expectation to dance more than 1 song in the first place then people wouldn't be offended

Ooof! I'd hate an environment where the expectation was dancing only one song. For me, with a new partner especially, there's a lot of truth in the idea that the first song is to get to know each other, and by the fourth song you'll be able to fully dance together.

But from a social perspective, I don't think it would work in the way you imagine, anyway. If followers see you danced four songs with follower A but only one song with them, they are going to be insulted/disappointed.

 

[pianistamediano]

My view of tango comes from people like CD, CR, FC, IB, JD, KC, KD, NY, RB, RJ, YF, and all the other women I danced with last night, most of whom aren't flamboyant, outgoing personalities.

Unfortunately, too many tango dancers are not like that! Overidolisation of performers, a preference towards bombastic and/or overly melodramatic music, a total disregard and contempt for subtlety and nuance, et cetera.

That's just uncool.

More so when the majority of resident teachers and organisers are allowed to dance only when they feel like it. It's almost like I'm some common commodity and therefore can be passed around.

Staring followers are more difficult. I don't think that's an attempt to celebrate or impose extroversion; I think it's an attempt not to iron a seat. Even very introverted and shy followers start the staring if they haven't had a tanda by Hour Two of most events.

This I understand and sympathise with; but when my body language makes it perfectly clear that I don't want to dance that tanda — lying all the way back in my seat, looking at the dance floor and not any followers, etc. — I still get intrusive stares.

So, again, don't let it get to you.

Thank you, my friend.

 

[opendoor]

..when the majority of resident teachers and organisers are allowed to dance only when they feel like it. It's almost like I'm some common commodity and therefore can be passed around..

You haven't yet realized that only beginners, untalented people and show-offs dance at milongas!

 

[pianistamediano]

You haven't yet realized that only beginners, untalented people and show-offs dance at milongas!

Well, I do need somewhere to show off my objectively superior musicality to the plebs...

 

[itwillhappen]

Ironically this is the very attitude that makes tango snobbish and unwelcoming to others whom you don’t know (visitors, newcomers, non-regulars).

In other dances I routinely seen pro level leaders and followers ask people on the sidelines they don’t know. Tango people just like to make or invent excuses for not treating social dancing as social.

If that's the case, then tango has other advantages, otherwise it would have died out decades ago. The question is whether there is a connection.

I do routinely dance one-third of tandas with people that I don’t want to dance with. People we want to dance with may not want to dance with us.

That's a lot, of course, but it's also sensible behavior in a local community that needs more followers. Here it's the other way around, and so it's not automatically guaranteed that general satisfaction will increase if you get more new followers to come more often.

General philosophy in life is that to be happy it is best to have less expectations. In tango everyone has high expectations and almost everyone isn’t happy

Well, often visiting a milonga costs a lot of time and money. If my expectations are low, my willingness to make the effort also decreases.

 

[Brummbaer]

Sometimes, yes! No statement that isn't, say, a law of thermodynamics is 100% true all the time. But I went through a 23-year period where everybody in my life seemed to be some kind of performer, and the vast, vast majority were extroverts. Even the supposed "depressed comedians" and "moody musicians" were, in fact, extroverts putting on the act of being introverts to broaden their audience.

Ok, maybe. But some people cope with life by playing a part, or a role - whichever way it goes. Sometimes it is a scene badly written in which I must play; sometimes it's a solution to cope; sometimes to achieve some objectives.

Many years ago in a learning group we had a guy who had a significant public legal job. He always seemed well-balanced. He even went away with us all on study breaks. Never said much about home life, but always super helpful, friendly, communicative and considerate to others. Retirement was looming. Then we learned he'd gone for a hike, not unusual, up on the nearby moors and killed himself. His body was discovered a few days later. We learned that he had had a sick wife at home for many years and, apparently, finally broke. He'd been playing a role the whole time at work and with our group. Never spoken to anyone about his problems.

So, I don't dismiss this. And, I guess, when I've given training lectures or similar, after some tuition in presentation, I play a role to be as well to be confident in that situation. Work wise I was normally seen as an introverted, knowledgeable, techie nerd, communing with computer systems for solutions, who doesn't suffer fools. If you can get the information out, it's worthwhile.

I guess I can play a role that doesn't seem to fit me to be sociable, chatty, confident, assertive, assured... and invite dance partners; or shrink back and discourage all contact. That black dog.

I've also observed the workers in the company meeting cheering on and praising some proposal, to walk out behind them listening to their criticisms.

I guess you have to define your objectives (tandas, or not) and play the appropriate role for that venue to get them. Much like any politician, if you don't like this persona, I have other options. But don't burn your boats.

 

[TTanguero]

I guess, when I've given training lectures or similar, after some tuition in presentation, I play a role to be as well to be confident in that situation

Personally, I have a slightly different take on this. I don't see myself as playing different roles in different contexts, rather expressing different aspects of myself.

The presentation example is a good one. I'm an introvert, but for more than a decade was a qualitative researcher. So a significant chunk of my job was presentations (pitches, and presentations of findings), and an even bigger chunk was moderating focus groups of 8-10 people with, typically, at least half as many people viewing from behind the one-way mirror. I also frequently spoke at conferences to, typically, audiences of a few hundred.

So that was a job in which I had to be 'on' or 'up' for significant chunks of time. The rest of the work, however, was as introverted as you can get: sitting in a room by myself analysing all the things we learned, and putting those presentations together.

Initially, I thought of the 'up' time as playing a role, and the 'down' time as being myself. But as time went on, I realised that both were me – they were just different aspects of me.

To bring things back to tango ...

In my experience, most tanguer*s are introverts – and I don't think that's coincidental. It's a dance in which we can invite someone wordlessly from the other side of the room; spend 12 minutes with them without having to say a word; where we can express any emotion (not just the exuberance of many dances); and where we can dance with someone we've never met before and will never meet again.

The learning side of things, too, seems tailor-made for introverts. It requires intense work, including plenty of solo practice. It requires an analytical mind (maybe more so for leaders, but maybe not – a lot of the analysis needed concerns technique, and followers generally need better technique than leaders as the dance is more technically demanding for them). It requires the ability to doggedly persevere at something for very limited reward for a significant time – the epitome of deferred gratification, at which introverts tend to be better than extroverts.

The extroverts in tango make more noise (naturally!), but I'd say we have them outnumbered!

 

[Rabbit]

But from a social perspective, I don't think it would work in the way you imagine, anyway. If followers see you danced four songs with follower A but only one song with them, they are going to be insulted/disappointed.

Well, it decreases the risks for followers too. And isn't 4/1 a more desirable situation from the social point of view than 4/0 and we both ignore each other? Everyone has preferred partners, no one has an illusion about that.

 

[Brummbaer]

Personally, I have a slightly different take on this. I don't see myself as playing different roles in different contexts, rather expressing different aspects of myself.

Another side of a slightly different coin. It's another description, except you can manufacture a role and play it (e.g. actor) rather than the more limited different personal aspects. It's down to what you tell yourself.

 

[Brummbaer]

Well, it decreases the risks for followers too. And isn't 4/1 a more desirable situation from the social point of view than 4/0 and we both ignore each other? Everyone has preferred partners, no one has an illusion about that.

If everyone buys in, it can work. Just like speed-tandas with 2 dances. In the appropriate circumstances, great; in others, awful. But sometimes we want 3 dances, sometimes 4 or more when the mood is right. 2, or 1, would be disappointing.

It's up to the DJ to read the audience after the scene has been set. I've had good DJs change to suit, but they're probably rare.

 

[Rabbit]

If everyone buys in, it can work. Just like speed-tandas with 2 dances. In the appropriate circumstances, great; in others, awful. But sometimes we want 3 dances, sometimes 4 or more when the mood is right. 2, or 1, would be disappointing.

If both partners are happy after the first dance, they can just keep dancing together, it works in other social dances...

 

[Brummbaer]

If both partners are happy after the first dance, they can just keep dancing together, it works in other social dances...

Yes, but with recorded music I like having tango, milonga and vals in some predictable sequence and partner for those forms. Generally, but not a strict rule, I'll dance tango with anyone but reserve milonga and vals for my wife as favourite dance partner. I'd rather they didn't occur at random. And then Pugliese...

Other social dances are either a single form, or some structured mix.

 

[Mr. Moustachio]

If I end when I'm happy, do I risk offending her if she wanted to continue? Or conversely, am I out-staying my welcome?

So, ask her. Either she wants to stop, or continue, or doesn't care.

 

[Mr. Moustachio]

Unfortunately, many teachers and performers here do the same (not sure if they're also forced to do so, but I think I've seen plenty of examples?) on the pista — as opposed to when they perform [???] — so it's not going away anytime.

Well, on a stage, they've got plenty of room. That's not true in a ronda. I know a local organizer who'll dance in place and wait for a large space to open up in front of him before taking giant steps forward. In the meanwhile, I'm being squeezed between him in front of me and a tailgater behind me.

 

[Naddrin Kentlar]

I've been joining milongas in a near city/different country for quite some time (4+ years). They have 1-2 milongas a month on Saturdays when I can travel and attend.

I usually got to dance with everybody there one tanda, and a couple of particular followers I danced with, two and very rarely three tandas. This was satisfying.

One of the organisers started using 3 tanda songs instead of 4. While in theory this should create higher rotation and ensurance that more people dance, It didn't really work as expected in my case.

I found out that in order to maintain the personal satisfaction level, 3 song tandas feel inadequate with followers I particularly like to dance with.

So basically in the same crowd, with 3 song tandas, I need to dance 3-5 tandas with a preferred follower to gain the feeling of 'completeness' and don't get to do the 1 tanda with everybody, that I got to do when going to the other milonga with 4 songs tanda.

Lower number of songs in a tanda, or no tanda structure, for me personally would be stressful as I would need to manage socially/verbally when we start to dance and when we stop. Stressful enough for me to avoid such an even altogether, regardless of my favourites being there.

I don't get bothered much by floorcraft these days as I can have a good time even if we travel like half a ronda in an entire tanda. I take this as 'it's up to me to decide who gets to have an influence on my ability to have fun, and try to not let bad floorcraft and uninspired DJ to play a factor in my satisfaction.