What is tango doing wrong: #1 - tandas

[Brummbaer]

Playing a role to me is when you are presenting yourself as something you are not to hide what you really are.

Of course it is. It's hiding your own perception of yourself. But that's not necessarily who you really are, but it can be.

 

[Brummbaer]

I suppose that for some people (myself included) this is acceptable.

- if someone wants to dance with me they will make themselves available for cabeceo. Only exception to this would be with someone I see as a really new dancer.

Sure, there are some missed tandas, but then again, I don't really care to dance with someone who doesn't want to dance with me on that moment. Not dancing at all with someone is preferable to having to spend four songs with someone distracted or uninterested.

I think the social environment, and objectives, have moved on since those days.

I've never been to BsAs, but from reports it's a different environment and culture. Been to someone's perception of that 'tradition' some way back - it didn't work well and felt awkward, dated, and unrealistic.

I listen sometimes to old milonguer@s describing it and their objectives - it doesn't fit in with my perception of today's world, but I do see the perspective of others on that - waiting for that special tanda with someone, or hanging on to 'rules' (but only some of them which suit!) for their view of 'tradition'.

 

[Brummbaer]

Which is why they're trying to turn milongas and tango events into nightclubs and loud, obnoxious parties.

Maybe a touch of burning at the stake is in order...

Perhaps you need to consider their perspective rather than your perception.

There's an attributed quote which has done the internet rounds as a false attribution:
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius - attributed

Nevertheless it's informative and educational to put yourself in their dance shoes.

 

[Brummbaer]

The same women who don't respond at all will then tell me at the evening they were disappointed we didn't dance!

That's your observation. It is, of course, possible that they didn't observe you, possibly by other distractions, or were being polite and didn't want to. So much uncertainty...

 

[Brummbaer]

Yeah I heard that sometimes. I tell them I tried to cabaceo. Either they are busy, didn’t notice, or someone cut me by asking them verbally or from close quarters.

A leader said that to my wife some time ago. She hadn't been wearing her glasses and couldn't see him (nor could I sat next to her across that room). She explained that. Ever since he comes over where he can be seen, or just asks. Makes sense

 

[itwillhappen]

I think the social environment, and objectives, have moved on since those days.

I've never been to BsAs, but from reports it's a different environment and culture. Been to someone's perception of that 'tradition' some way back - it didn't work well and felt awkward, dated, and unrealistic.

I listen sometimes to old milonguer@s describing it and their objectives - it doesn't fit in with my perception of today's world, but I do see the perspective of others on that - waiting for that special tanda with someone, or hanging on to 'rules' (but only some of them which suit!) for their view of 'tradition'.

A lot has changed - we have more or less arrived at a time of equality. So a woman can either participate equally in the mirada ... or she can exercise her privilege of coming to me and asking for a dance. And I can then think carefully about her request and, as the owner of my body, decide as I please.

 

[itwillhappen]

Hey, I recall I even declined a milonga with you, @itwillhappen which you didn’t accept and somehow you convinced me anyhow. The very convincing ones tend to know what they are doing, so…

Yeah @Miradamiranda , I state that a milonga tanda is the perfect way to relax between two strenuous tangos. And while she's confused, I somehow manage to get her on the dance floor. Usually that works out great, no complaints so far.

 

[Brummbaer]

more or less arrived at a time of equality.

It's progressed, but still a way to go. Even legally retreating in some countries. Some attitudes at milongas around the world (even if some consider it 'liberating' and 'empowering'), and misogynist attitudes from so-called 'influencers' and the 'hard men' of a particular persuasion, even in, what were once considered, 'liberal' countries.

 

[pianistamediano]

Nevertheless it's informative and educational to put yourself in their dance shoes.

Not until they show the same courtesy.

 

[opendoor]

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius - attributed

The quote confuses me. Marcus A. was a Stoic. This school of thought rejected the separation in the substances of spirit and matter; it was monistic. Therefore (despite all their skepticism) the Stoics always recognized the rule of reason also in vegetative processes as for instance sensory perception.

 

[Brummbaer]

The quote confuses me. Marcus A. was a Stoic. This school of thought rejected the separation in the substances of spirit and matter; it was monistic. Therefore (despite all their skepticism) the Stoics always recognized the rule of reason also in vegetative processes as for instance sensory perception.

Congratulations. You noticed. That's why I said 'attributed'. Allegedly an untrue quote. Nevertheless it seems to be frequently used in the discussion about 'perception' and 'perspective'. Forget who may, or may not, have said it.

 

[Brummbaer]

Not until they show the same courtesy.

Doesn't that have to be earned? Are they being deliberately discourteous? Again, your perception, but not necessarily their perspective. Maybe that's how you appear to them. Is your objective to dance or to actively avoid everyone who doesn't satisfy your restrictive criteria?

 

[TTanguero]

And still we insist on mirada-cabeceo despite all the miscommunications between experienced dancers

Well, we're specifically talking about the downsides here. There's no perfect system, and for me the upsides of the mirada-cabeceo system vastly outweigh the downsides.

 

[pianistamediano]

Doesn't that have to be earned? Are they being deliberately discourteous? Again, your perception, but not necessarily their perspective. Maybe that's how you appear to them. Is your objective to dance or to actively avoid everyone who doesn't satisfy your restrictive criteria?

No, I treat people with courtesy by default unless they have offended me first; and extroverts have shaped milonga environments here to suit their own needs by dint of being more visible and having louder voices, which is directly opposite that of mine.

Please don't make judgements from a place of ignorance — as I've said in many a post since I joined this forum, I have and will still dance with visitors sight unseen and with beginners, all with the genuine desire and sincerity in wanting to make them enjoy themselves, to give them a good time, or to hopefully show them just how pleasurable tango can be. What I want most in a dance (that I get far too rarely) doesn't prevent me from being generous and giving back to the community at times.

 

[daisy_r]

In my home scene my regulars would understand I’m declining just a milonga tanda. But in this case I had just danced an amazing milonga (or two, possibly) with an amazing milonga dancer who made me look like I knew what I was doing and that I enjoyed it. The others couldn’t know of my principle.

I don't think that this is a rare principle to have in the tango scene, I know plenty of people who won't normally dance milonga or vals tanda with someone they haven't danced with before, but maybe in this situation those leaders really wanted to dance, specifically, that milonga tanda with you. It wouldn't be surprising since it sounds like you probably made a great impression with the earlier milonga tandas.

I'm really careful choosing my partners for milonga tandas now. I have been stung a few too many times, as a leader and as a follower. Even when someone looks like a great milonga dancer, I try to get a tango in first, just to make sure our joint dance works on a basic level.