What Makes a Good Follower?

[Temza]

I'm surprised nobody has yet metioned David Bailey's contribution here http://learningtango.com/GivingGoodDance.html
I think it's a good start, Good Following being discussed in terms of what it is NOT.
As for positives, I would add the ability to hear the music and move with it, and involvement in the dance

 

[UKDancer]

You can't count the Viennese Waltz either as that's effectively
a pattern dance and far too fast for anything else.
UKDancer might have a slightly more nuanced slant,
though that would be largely irrelevant here.

Er, never mind...

But tango as a dance of feeling requires a physical bodily connection and I don't mean via arms - I mean a chest to chest.

No: it self-evidently doesn't. Your tango might: most peoples' doesn't.

Of course, any connection is torso to torso, but it can be perfectly comfortably communicated through the arms, without any actual body contact at all. You might prefer a closer embrace (so would I, mainly), but your preference doesn't define the dance for anyone except you.

 

[JohnEm]

Of course, any connection is torso to torso, but it can be perfectly comfortably communicated through the arms, without any actual body contact at all. You might prefer a closer embrace (so would I, mainly), but your preference doesn't define the dance for anyone except you.

Well you would say that as a ballroomer!!!!!

But a reality check. Somehow this thread has concentrated on connection
and feeling. I've never said it cannot be danced any other way - and have
mentioned there are other connections. I first learned other ways but
found apilado tango has the greatest distinction from other dances.

And I'm not defining the dance for anyone else, I leave that to people
like you who start teaching their own definitions. I have adopted
the embrace as a way of defining it for me and make it continually clear
on here that that is how I wish to dance and what I describe.
If only others would state where they are in the tango firmament
when being so adamantly contrarian.

But the other defining element (and for some the most important) is the
music and no matter what I see and no matter what tango "style" I've
danced, close embrace, chest to chest, enables a partner dance of the
music more improvisational in the moment than any other form.

 

[UKDancer]

Well you would say that as a ballroomer!!!!!

Actually, I don't. I rarely dance in any BR style, any more, but I never did dance some fantasy/amalgam of styles, but tried to dance with the technique and characterisation proper to each distinctly different member of that family of dances.

You are also being rather contrary, for you can't dance any of the ballroom styles without bodily contact - for that is part of the accepted technique of these standardised dances (in which the arms are never used in leading); whereas tango in open embrace is many dancers preference, and close embrace would interfere with many tango actions having wide currency and general acceptance.

And you are defining the dance, as if with general application:

But tango as a dance of feeling requires a physical bodily connection
and I don't mean via arms - I mean a chest to chest.

All I have said is that there is no such requirement. I doubt many would disagree. You do, but you have not made a reasoned case, just expressed a personal preference. I wouldn't seek to deny you your preference, but you have no locus standii in relation to mine, or anyone else's.

 

[bordertangoman]

I'm surprised nobody has yet metioned David Bailey's contribution here http://learningtango.com/GivingGoodDance.html
I think it's a good start, Good Following being discussed in terms of what it is NOT.
As for positives, I would add the ability to hear the music and move with it, and involvement in the dance

good link; temza

 

[JohnEm]

Actually, I don't. I rarely dance in any BR style, any more, but I never did dance some fantasy/amalgam of styles, but tried to dance with the technique and characterisation proper to each distinctly different member of that family of dances.

I seem to recall you earn your living teaching ballroom?
Yet you don't dance ballroom much - there are tango teachers like that..

You are also being rather contrary, for you can't dance any of the ballroom styles without bodily contact - for that is part of the accepted technique of these standardised dances (in which the arms are never used in leading);

That's ridiculous but we've had this argument before and has no place
here. However, just go to any social ballroom event and you'll see couples
dancing without bodily contact apart from a hold of the arms.

whereas tango in open embrace is many dancers preference, and close embrace would interfere with many tango actions having wide currency and general acceptance.

Open embrace - there's an oxymoron.
Wide currency maybe so, but I've made it clear that is not what I'm
talking about. And "general acceptance" doesn't make it socially
compatible on a busy crowded floor.

I'm not arguing that it doesn't take place though I would argue that
what has "general acceptance" here is (has) crowding out tango of the
senses in favour of tango of the visual.

And you are defining the dance, as if with general application:

No - I've qualified my comments as applying to a dance of feeling/senses.
I don't deny the existence of other so-called styles, just I don't want
to dance them and have preference for other dances over them.

All I have said is that there is no such requirement. I doubt many would disagree. You do, but you have not made a reasoned case, just expressed a personal preference. I wouldn't seek to deny you your preference, but you have no locus standii in relation to mine, or anyone else's.

You're just provoking a needless and pointless argument.

 

[dchester]

so that was about as useful as a snooze alarm on a smoke detector......

Not that my answer will be much better, but I'd say the answer depends on the leader, as not all leaders want the same thing.

For me, she needs to have a comfortable close embrace, wait for the lead, stay with the leader (or allow the leader to accompany her), and step on the beat.

 

[UKDancer]

You're just provoking a needless and pointless argument.

No, I'm not going to argue with you, but I stand by what I wrote.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Two most important things in a "follower" for me are:
a positive attitude which includes communicating in one way or another that any dancing done together was a good thing;
and good technique, a short phrase that covers a lot of ground.

And, it least for me, you must have both to be "a Good Follower".

It seems that technique can be taught. It seems that attitude is what it is.

 

[AndaBien]

...For me, she needs to have a comfortable close embrace, wait for the lead, stay with the leader (or allow the leader to accompany her), and step on the beat.

I am a apilado dancer, and I agree with the above.

An important aspect is that once the embrace is established, I don't want it to ever disappear. Well, at least until the music is over. Some partners will break the embrace to do a step, often ochos, then return to the embrace. I want all movements to be done within the embrace, not ever letting it break.

 

[bordertangoman]

Two most important things in a "follower" for me are:
a positive attitude which includes communicating in one way or another that any dancing done together was a good thing;
and good technique, a short phrase that covers a lot of ground.

And, it least for me, you must have both to be "a Good Follower".

It seems that technique can be taught. It seems that attitude is what it is.

there are a lot of things which i think i fall under the heading 'technique'

so aside from balance posture etc.

i think for me; musicality; i want her to be engaged with the music as much as i am.
so stepping on a beat if i lead that or a half beat if i lead that, but more to feel the quality of the step; if its soft footfall or a quick in-the-floor milonga step.
to flow if its vals;
for her embrace to be soft and tender and fluid in the arm.

 

[Zoopsia59]

the answer depends on the leader, as not all leaders want the same thing.

Thank you... I wanted to say something similar. Many beginner (and not so beginner) followers ask the question and they'd get different answers from different leaders. As a follower, if I am asked the question, I make a distinction between:

"What makes a good follower?"
and
"What makes a follower good?

The first question seems to be asking for a subjective opinion from a leader as to what he likes in a follower. The 2nd question asks more about what followers need to learn and be able to do technically. It gives a follower something concrete to practice.

Maybe that's too much semantics. But the 2nd question and its implication, is much easier to answer.

If a follower asks the first question, I'd think she is asking "What are the leaders looking for, because no one (or only some) will dance with me!" And to that question, I'd often have to say "Damned if I know.. he won't dance with me either!"

Being able to follow does not always translate into being able to please leaders... certainly not ALL leaders. One leader can say you're one of the best partners he's had while another completely snubs you. There's a world of difference between being a good follower and being a popular follower.

So it's interesting from a follower perspective to hear what various leaders think "makes a good follower". But unless I REALLY want to dance with a specific person whose attention I just haven't been able to capture, their replies rarely change what I do technically unless I hear the same thing from quite a few sources. (or a source I respect more than average)
[/quote]

 

[tangobro]

as mentioned: balance, posture, being "tuned in" to me, technique and most importantly - being a dancer and not just a follower. Which to me means she brings her presence to the dance rather than waiting to be moved around.

 

[bordertangoman]

well my baseline is "Minimum Cognitive Interference." in other words she is dancing well enough for me not to have to focus on her balance, or feel that she's dragging on me.

@ Zoopsia; a nice distinction, even if I think the semantics is flawed.

i do like a bit of "poisonality" in a follower, eastern europeans seem to have it in spades, French ladies sometimes, whereas English ladies by and large are wall flowers...

 

[Nina22]

I often hear this thing with the follower leaning or dragging on the leader but sometimes it feels like the leader is making us lean or put more weight on them maybe by not giving us enough space or from a too tight embrace? (I'm a newbie so what do I know)