What makes a Teacher?

[UKDancer]

Would anyone care to offer either a definition of what a teacher of Argentine Tango is (or should be), or share a view over teacher formation - the process of becoming one.

Thank you to those who have taken the time to respond to my questions.

The first part has been covered quite well, but I am probably more interested in the second aspect - that of the process of teacher formation (in AT, specifically). It seems that the concensus is for teachers to be drawn from the tango community, rather than to be 'trained' by an organisation with a wider interest in dance, so a teacher could be said to be a first-among-equals (perhaps).

How do they make the transition from dancer to teacher, or is it just trial and error?

 

[Dave Bailey]

I'm going to pass this one over to Dave Bailey..the more I know the more I find tango is full of contradictions..

Oh, right, so I know nothing, huh?

as to an organised body..forget it, it would be like herding cats......

Reminds me of Terry Pratchett's description of witches: "The natural size of a coven is one"

 

[Dave Bailey]

On the other hand, teaching is a very different activity from dancing, and I think some teacher training would be beneficial. I do not agree with offering a certification. That would imply that a teacher is “good” if certified, and not “good” if not certified.

The problem with certification is that you need to certify against an agreed set of standards first.

See "herding cats"...

I’ve presented some of my ideas about teaching here.
http://web.archive.org/web/20110323111514/http://andabien.com/html/teaching-tango.php

Very good link, thanks for reminding me of that.

 

[Dave Bailey]

I would hate to see a syllabus govern the teaching of AT, or Lindy or West Coast or Shag or Salsa, for that matter.

I actually wouldn't mind a syllabus per se - that is, if you define "syllabus" as "a standardised set of guidelines for a teaching plan".

Unfortunately, the ones I've seen so far have been simply lists of moves (all the "adas"), which are frankly worse than useless.

But a syllabus which, for example, focussed on the following:
- Steps (forward, back, side, pivot)
- Lead / follow (initiation, free leg, sequence)
- Posture and axis
- Embrace (close, open, in between)
- Musicality (beat, timing, structure)

That'd be a good starting point for a syllabus, I think. At least, that's pretty much the sort of thing I use.

 

[UKDancer]

From my background, I want structure and definitions. It all depends on whether it would be possible to determine the fundamental issues around which there could be broad agreement, and then to determine a vocabulary or method by which they could be defined/illustrated.

I believe that AT is built from fundamental elements, and a syllabus that has a page or two of introductory waffle, and then lots of tables illustrating a set of predetermined moves, has got it completely wrong. However, another approach could work better, but is unlikely to come out of one of the teaching societies, unless, existing members take up the social dance at a high level, and then write a text themselves, and get it adopted by their peers.

It must be possible to articulate the basic principles of this dance in a form of language that can be shared with others. How is the cross led? Is the lead different in cross system, and if so, how (and why)? What are the mechanics of an ocho? How is it danced and how was it led? The development of a 'technique' needn't be limiting or prescriptive if it is prepared in the right way and with the right approach. There are lots of ways of doing all sorts of things, but a basic syllabus could aim to illustrate a simple way to dance particular actions that would work for most people, most of the time. Beyond that, comes personal development, individuality and flair, but most of us have those attributes only to a modest extent...

 

[AndaBien]

... a basic syllabus could aim to illustrate a simple way to dance particular actions that would work for most people, most of the time...

I suggest that this goal works to move AT toward the realm of ballroom dance. In all the years that I taught I found that AT doesn't work for most people. Much to my chagrin, most of my students did not become capable dancers. Most of them dropped out within a few months of starting to learn, no matter how hard I worked to help them learn. AT is a complicated and challenging dance to learn. I wouldn't want to see the dance simplified just to make it more accessible. Helping teachers to teach, if they want help, is one thing. Changing the dance to make it easy is another thing entirely.

 

[ant]

From my background, I want structure and definitions.

....There are lots of ways of doing all sorts of things, but a basic syllabus could aim to illustrate a simple way to dance particular actions that would work for most people, most of the time....

It seems to me that this is a short cut to teaching AT, with a Dance Association to give it validity.

 

[bordertangoman]

it must be possible to articulate the basic principles of this dance in a form of language that can be shared with others.

it is hard to learn tango from language, books dont work, DVD's fare little better;
it requires instruction, demonstration observation and feedback. and participation.

 

[AndaBien]

I agree ANT's with the previous post. AT doesn't have the structure that most dances do have. And the reason we debate definitions so much is that the dance doesn't lend itself well to definitions.

 

[JohnEm]

it is hard to learn tango from language, books dont work, DVD's fare little better;
it requires instruction, demonstration observation and feedback. and participation.

But mainly participation (practice).

 

[bordertangoman]

It seems to me that this is a short cut to teaching AT, with a Dance Association to give it validity.

Aha it maybe a shortcut to teaching tango, but it isnt a shortcut to learning it.

it reminds of The-Woman-Who-Shouts-At-her-tango-students, why does she do this: becuase she's a qualified teacher, and does it help them? No, quite a few leave and the ones who put up with her are not becoming good dancers

More to teaching than a stamp or certificate, or training.

 

[opendoor]

no brain decision

Hi Anda, sweeping post. Hard to answer or comment on. It is as it is, but ..

my believe is: Tango cannot be learned, cannot be taught, it only can be undergone, experienced, lived through. (Steps, musicality, combinations, codigos.. actually can be taught). So if there isn´t a kind of a sensitive phase at the same time, the project very often is foredoomed to fail. As far as I got to know there are two typical tango types: a) has heard and loved the music already for many years or since his youth, type b) is over a serious accident in partnership. You cannot start tango by a brain decision, or by doing your partner a favour.

 

[Nathan]

From my background, I want structure and definitions. It all depends on whether it would be possible to determine the fundamental issues around which there could be broad agreement, and then to determine a vocabulary or method by which they could be defined/illustrated.

Alright, but that was done about a hundred years ago. It's called ballroom tango.

 

[opendoor]

..I want structure and definitions. It all depends on whether it would be possible to determine the fundamental issues around which there could be broad agreement, and then to determine a vocabulary or method by which they could be defined/illustrated.

Alright, but that was done about a hundred years ago. It's called ballroom tango.

Nathan, that doesn´t hit the post. You are right, BR-tango has a syllabus, system, and structure. But Ar-Tango as well ! There are discerning systems and also almost simple ones. But, only that is the problem, they are conflicting systems. A student has to choose from different systems, or has to subject oneself to a certain school, or has to invent his own method.

 

[Dave Bailey]

From my background, I want structure and definitions. It all depends on whether it would be possible to determine the fundamental issues around which there could be broad agreement, and then to determine a vocabulary or method by which they could be defined/illustrated.

Well, the first difficulty is, who gets to define these issues, and who gets to agree them? In fact, that's probably the main obstacle.

The other main obstacle, of course, is getting such a syllabus to be implemented and respected.

The current UKA syllabus, for example, I think it's fair to say, is rubbish - it's just a list of steps. Steps are almost irrelevant in the dance, in my opinion.

I believe that AT is built from fundamental elements, and a syllabus that has a page or two of introductory waffle, and then lots of tables illustrating a set of predetermined moves, has got it completely wrong.

Yep - completely agree.

However, another approach could work better, but is unlikely to come out of one of the teaching societies, unless, existing members take up the social dance at a high level, and then write a text themselves, and get it adopted by their peers.

The first problem is that many of the aspects which are fundamental to the dance (improvisation, musicality, connection) are extremely difficult to provide "examinable metrics" on. So there's less business incentive for a dance society to include these aspects in a syllabus.

The second problem is that many of the other theoretically-measurable aspects of the dance are subjective. Posture for example - is Apilado "wrong"? Or embrace - is it "wrong" to lead an ocho in close embrace, or to lead a walk in open?

So what you're left with, as things which can be easily-measured, are, well, a list of steps...

It must be possible to articulate the basic principles of this dance in a form of language that can be shared with others.

To a point, yes. But only to a point, I think. Beyond that you get into "many roads up the mountain" territory.

How is the cross led?

In many different ways...

Is the lead different in cross system, and if so, how (and why)?

No, and no.

What are the mechanics of an ocho? How is it danced and how was it led?

Lead / follow a pivot, then lead / follow a step

The development of a 'technique' needn't be limiting or prescriptive if it is prepared in the right way and with the right approach. There are lots of ways of doing all sorts of things, but a basic syllabus could aim to illustrate a simple way to dance particular actions that would work for most people, most of the time. Beyond that, comes personal development, individuality and flair, but most of us have those attributes only to a modest extent...

I actually agree that a structured approach is best, and even that some form of standardisation would be useful.

I just don't think it can happen.