What makes a waltz a waltz for you?

Zoopsia59 said:
I answered as a follower and gave my preferences on what I like to feel.

I don't understand your attempts to make more out of it than that.
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I just wanted to understand if it is a taste (like "I like fish, I like red wine") or an opinion (like "According to me, fish should go with red wine"). None of them can be wrong, but the second one is open to discussion.
 
chanchan said:
I asked you about Pugliese's vals, because I wanted to understand if you usually don't like pauses in vals, or if you believe that pauses are wrong in any vals, as a principle, included valses where the flow someway stops in certain moments.
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I am not sure if it is just a particular venue that I attend or it is played generally but I tend to dance to the track you mentioned alot.

I understand why you feel there are pauses in the track but to me Pugliese seems to be playing with us. The pauses and slowing down of the music seems to have a quality of suspended waiting (rather than a definite pause) allowing the maximum amount of contrast within the track between the way you would normally dance Vals, flowing swirls and the almost stillness of suspended movement the pauses dictate. To me there is an expectation of movement within the pause that is not there in normal pauses in most other music.
 
chanchan said:
I just wanted to understand if it is a taste (like "I like fish, I like red wine") or an opinion (like "According to me, fish should go with red wine"). None of that can be wrong, but the second one is open to discussion.
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Maybe if you'd talk more about your opinions on tango (along with considering other people's opinions), rather than focusing so much on philosophy and logic, it might be a more productive conversation.
 
JohnEm said:
As you've made that comment (correctly as far as I'm concerned) and this
is a Vals thread, I cannot resist posting this performance in which Gavito
does the strangest thing to a Vals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UvxaPiIQ20&feature=player_embedded
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Well I can certainly say I didn't care for it. To be fair, the video quality was very annoying, so it may have influenced my dislike some, but to me, it seemed as if it was danced more like a tango than a vals.
 
ant said:
I understand why you feel there are pauses in the track but to me Pugliese seems to be playing with us. The pauses and slowing down of the music seems to have a quality of suspended waiting (rather than a definite pause) allowing the maximum amount of contrast within the track between the way you would normally dance Vals, flowing swirls and the almost stillness of suspended movement the pauses dictate. To me there is an expectation of movement within the pause that is not there in normal pauses in most other music.
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Ok, now please watch the video posted by johnem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uvxa...layer_embedded
The music is a "regular" vals with no tempo change at all, and not very slow.
Pay attention to what happens to the music in 2:00-2:04 and in in 2:16.
I don't want to know if you define them pauses or what kind of pauses, but: how would you dance those parts? Would you mantain the flow, for example with giros, or do something like what did Gavito, or something else?

My personal opinion is that in those parts that I mentioned, there is no other option than following the melody (like Gavito, possibly with different movements).
The rest of the song could be danced following the melody or following the rhythm (which means maintaining the flow, no pauses, etc.)

(Disclaimer: I am asking for opinions, this is not an exam and there is no "right" answer)
 
chanchan said:
Ok, now please watch the video posted by johnem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uvxa...layer_embedded
The music is a "regular" vals with no tempo change at all, and not very slow.
Pay attention to what happens to the music in 2:00-2:04 and in in 2:16.
I don't want to know if you define them pauses or what kind of pauses, but: how would you dance those parts? Would you mantain the flow, for example with giros, or do something like what did Gavito, or something else?

My personal opinion is that in those parts that I mentioned, there is no other option than following the melody (like Gavito, possibly with different movements).
The rest of the song could be danced following the melody or following the rhythm (which means maintaining the flow, no pauses, etc.)

(Disclaimer: I am asking for opinions, this is not an exam and there is no "right" answer)
Click to expand...

If it were me, I would simply stop and dance the silences and pauses and make it a part of the dance.
 
chanchan said:
Ok, now please watch the video posted by johnem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uvxa...layer_embedded
The music is a "regular" vals with no tempo change at all, and not very slow.
Pay attention to what happens to the music in 2:00-2:04 and in in 2:16.
I don't want to know if you define them pauses or what kind of pauses, but: how would you dance those parts? Would you mantain the flow, for example with giros, or do something like what did Gavito, or something else?

My personal opinion is that in those parts that I mentioned, there is no other option than following the melody (like Gavito, possibly with different movements).
The rest of the song could be danced following the melody or following the rhythm (which means maintaining the flow, no pauses, etc.)

(Disclaimer: I am asking for opinions, this is not an exam and there is no "right" answer)
Click to expand...
My honest opinion is that the band goofed up at that section. To me, it made no musical sense how they played that passage. The song had a nice "flow" going, and then lost everything for a bit. It wasn't like it was a pause, but more like a mess. I can't fault Gavito for just stopping like he did, as the band was just bad there. I think it just took him a bit to get it back together, after the band got back on track.
 
dchester said:
My honest opinion is that the band goofed up at that section. To me, it made no musical sense how they played that passage. The song had a nice "flow" going, and then lost everything for a bit. It wasn't like it was a pause, but more like a mess. I can't fault Gavito for just stopping like he did, as the band was just bad there. I think it just took him a bit to get it back together, after the band got back on track.
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I have a different opinion, but I apreciate that you don't give the fault to Gavito. ;)

The band is Anibal Troilo's orchestra, one of the most important bands of the Golden Ages, and played specifically for dancing. My impression is that this pause fits perfectly with the dynamics of the song, which has an alternation of strong, passional moments and soft parts with a contrast that grows up until this final section.
 
Think the decisive circles and upper classes where always orientated towards europe. So a mixture between argentine and viennese style came forth. It´s not VW, it´s rather kind of that swaying what here about is called rural or country waltz.
;)

By the way, besides Gardel, del Carril is one of the great tango stylites (though political bit precarious), so it made me wonder how unsophisticated he danced.

(off topic, my Carril favorite youtube.com/watch?v=QPQsSmk_d1A )
 
opendoor said:
Again and again I enjoy how unspectacularly all these people in this vid dance.
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You watch over and over because you enjoy the fact that the dancing is unspectacular? (ie: boring, bad, mediorcre, etc)

I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Perhaps a language issue?
 
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