What makes you cringe in tango?

Rabbit said:
The whole point of being "elite" is to do pretentious stuff to try and cover up the fact that none of them are good dancers.
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If that's the case, then it doesn't matter to me; I don't have to dance with them.
But in the major cities, I certainly see a highly trained "elite."
 
Rabbit said:
The whole point of being "elite" is to do pretentious stuff to ..cover up the fact that none of them are good dancers.
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Perhaps that applies to the clique you have in mind. But there's also the one I wrote about. These people are actually good dancers, keep to themselves, learn exclusively from the best teacher in town, have their own dance events, and magnetically attract equally arrogant up-and-coming dancers.
 
Rabbit said:
- It's a dance not a way of life. At least it shouldn't be. Milonguero used to be a derogatory term for a reason
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Why exactly? As there are clearly people for whom tango is a way of life.
The language used in past eras doesn't convince me as an argument.

Rabbit said:
- If you can only create the experience you want with a very low proportion of dancers, then you understand the dance a lot less than you think you do
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Who exactly has the authority to judge to which degree someone understands tango? And wouldn't that claim be rather elitist?
 
pianistamediano said:
That's true, competence is rarely distributed evenly; but I'd argue that being wilfully ignorant — or even just less than knowledgeable — about most aspects of what one claims to be one's obsession or life-long fascination/commitment is disingenuous.
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I'd say there is a difference between having a commitment to something and claiming to be an expert in it. If you claim expertise, then you certainly need to be able to back that up with knowledge. If you are simply very committed to a hobby, then I think it's absolutely fine to pick and choose the aspects of it with which you engage.

An obvious example to me is that it's not unusual to find a follower who is an extremely good dancer and very much immersed in the tango world, but who doesn't necessarily recognise the orchestra to which we're dancing.

Similarly, while I of course recognise many songs, I can name very few of them because the vast majority of my listening has not been in front of a computer where the names are displayed. That's not a problem for a dancer, but would be a huge problem were I claiming to be a DJ.

For a social dancer, I would say the only required expertise is (a) how to be comfortable for your partner and (b) not disrupt the other dancers around you.
 
opendoor said:
Perhaps that applies to the clique you have in mind. But there's also the one I wrote about. These people are actually good dancers, keep to themselves, learn exclusively from the best teacher in town, have their own dance events, and magnetically attract equally arrogant up-and-coming dancers.
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People like you ... before your serious accident; if I remember your posts correctly. So let us face it, that's one possible behavior to get the attention and recognition one needs, to feel somehow secure, assuming enough aptitude and ressources.

But if you don't want to dance with them, don't want to be like them, then they're not really a problem. Of course, they're not exactly an asset to a social dance either. But I was usually able to ignore this group, and they ignored me; that's only fair.
 
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itwillhappen said:
Okay, so that's how it is; it's a convenient time for both teachers and students.
Does "most advanced" mean that beginners, if they even participate, are quickly out of the ronda?

Before the milongas, here are more "all-level" classes, so they're more for socializing and networking.
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It's a different vibe between an all-levels class and a beginner's class. In Portland one of the more popular milongas has an actual, advertised beginner's class for people who have never done tango before. Starts at 7:30, often has invited instructors that give workshops for more advanced dancers during the day, but the audience is total beginners. I've seen up to maybe 40 people show up to that beginner's class.

What ends up happening is that most advanced dancers show up about an hour later, and they often dance with the beginners in the middle of the floor to warm up. Most beginners usually leave before 10 but some stick it up all the way to midnight. Honestly, it's a much more welcoming vibe compared to other cities that don't have a class and is only filled with people that have done it for decades.
 
JournalInTime said:
Not an attack on you, but: Much of the perceived "snobbery" in tango comes from privileged people who can arrange their private and professional lives with ease to have tango as one of many interests, and who casually dismiss people who have to fight harder to have less – and who choose tango as their prize – as being somehow second-class or "people with deficiencies." That's pretty cringe right there.
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Like @opendoor, I started tango during a period of "relationship reorganization" with very little financial leeway. Life isn't fair, that's for sure. I'm just advocating for serious reflection on why you're sticking with tango before you become massively dissatisfied. As an estimated 95% of all beginners simply drop tango.
 
(Seemingly snobby cliques)
itwillhappen said:
Of course, they're not exactly an asset to a social dance either. But I was usually able to ignore this group, and they ignored me; that's only fair.
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The somewhat unusual way I came into tango gave me a slightly different take on this. Because I started with privates before I took any group classes, and I sampled a number of different teachers, then I got to know several teachers and was introduced to their friends. So the groups that hung out in the unofficial VIP area by the DJ often included* people I knew.

Of course, that didn't mean that they wanted to dance with a beginner, but I never perceived them as unfriendly. While I'm sure that some of those groups are motivated by wanting to feel superior to the masses, in the majority of cases that I experienced it was simply a group of friends who enjoyed each other's company. There came a time when I felt able to cabeceo within those groups and was usually accepted.

I'm not arguing here that there is never an unfriendly clique aspect to it, rather that this is not always the case, and appearances can be misleading.

*I use past tense merely because the type of milongas I go to now don't generally have these groups.
 
itwillhappen said:
Like opendoor, I started tango during a period of "relationship reorganization" with very little financial leeway. Life isn't fair, that's...
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The worst part was that there was a beginning dancer in my peer group who also had gone through a divorce. I was speechless that he could afford his own car. I was so envious of the two expensive car seats for children. I loved going to his private milongas with candles and finger food under the roof of his loft. Years later, I learned that he had been sentenced to 10 years in prison for extorting a department store chain. He never showed up at tango again. I found out because I ran into his girlfriend at the rooms of an NGO that distributes cheap clothing and furniture to people in need.
 
itwillhappen said:
Like opendoor, I started tango during a period of "relationship reorganization" with very little financial leeway. Life isn't fair, that's...
Click to expand...
The worst part was that there also was a beginning dancer in my peer group who had also gone through a divorce. I was speechless that he could afford his own car. I was so envious of the two expensive car seats for children. I loved going to his private milongas with candles and finger food under the roof of his loft. Years later, I learned that he had been sentenced to 10 years in prison for extorting a department store chain. He never showed up at tango again. I found out because I ran into his girlfriend at the of an NGO that distributes cheap clothing and furniture to people in need.
 
Rabbit said:
.... It's a dance not a way of life. At least it shouldn't be. Milonguero used to be a derogatory term for a reason..
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No offense intended, but you're quite judgmental. Specifically, the old milongueros were known for their proverbial lack of any dance skills. They were never interested in the music, only in the girls. But please watch all the interviews of these so-called old "milongueros" on the Practimilonguero chanel, first. In the golden age, a very careful distinction was made between milongueros, aficionaros, and dancers! No one actually cares about milongueros today.

And as for me, tango was my lifestyle in the beginning. Tango regulated my social contacts and my sex life. Tango scheduled my workouts and shaped my knowledge of muscle groups, bodywork, balance and fitness. I cleared out a room in my flat for dancing. Tango also set cultural standards; I began to take an interest in Spanish and in shellac records. I bought a bandoneón. I applied for a dance teacher training program; I wanted to become a professional. I was completely immersed in tango. I would definitely call that a way of life!
 
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