What makes you cringe in tango?

[Miradamiranda]

2. Someone who always writes about tango in super dramatic prose (there’s a popular blogger that always pops up in tango fb groups that comes to mind) + always shilling his books or other content.

I agree. I very often find a lot to disagree with him about, but his latest series on archetypes in tango is actually entertaining.

 

[opendoor]

...but his latest series on archetypes in tango is actually entertaining.

What I dislike about him is the aggressive marketing of his books and ideas. I'm more sensitive to violations from within my own camp; it's like stepping back in the ronda or blocking two lanes. I quickly unfriended him and think he'd definitely get on my nerves in private too. And his archetypes are AI-generated.

 

[pianistamediano]

Rampant usage of AI aside, I also find his aggressive marketing very annoying. All his posts seem performative and pretentious, despite repeatedly trying to portray himself as a down-to-earth and humble guy.

I enjoyed reading some of his blog posts in the past, but if I consider his approach to social dancing in the light of his other actions — they give me the scent of a used car/snake oil salesman, given how much he pushes his own products — I become suspicious.

(Apropos of that, maybe he's removed all his blog posts from his website to better sell them, or maybe I'm recalling another blogger!)

I think that in his attempts to appear authentic and soulful and thoughtful, he overdoes it to the point of instead seeming disingenuous.

 

[brujo]

Were I an organizer, if someone came to me to say they'd had an experience like that, I'd put the prejudiced person on the black list at the door, along with the names of people known to not pay, start fights, etc.

It's always fascinating to me chatting with amazing tango dancers or people who want to learn that don't go to any of the events and milongas. I was at a blues event and danced with a really amazing dancer who learned to dance in Spain. She was really good, at least intermediate / advanced to my eyes. When I asked if she went to the milongas she said that she felt that because she was younger she felt that nobody invited her, and that she just sat alone. Another tall black woman also said that she was interested in tango but only would go to the Queer tango class in town because she felt that anything else she tried would lead to her instantly being rejected by the tango crowd. I also see a lot of people with beautiful tattoos in classes covering them up for milongas. And this is in one of the bluest cities in the states. While people don't say it outwardly, there is still a lot of this internalized 'this is what you should be to dance tango' attitude that floats around the air.

 

[itwillhappen]

Off the top of my head, I can rattle off enough songs to last a few hours, name their orquestas and singers, and hum or sing extracts all the way to whole songs (if I like them enough). It's simply ridiculous that someone who claims to live for tango can't do the same. I'm not even expecting them to order those songs in proper tandas for a coherent, balanced setlist of three or four hours.

Tango would be so much easier if you could arbitrarily limit the required skills to the part where you at least suspect you have some talent.
But you can't.

 

[itwillhappen]

What I dislike about him is the aggressive marketing of his books and ideas. I'm more sensitive to violations from within my own camp; it's like stepping back in the ronda or blocking two lanes. I quickly unfriended him and think he'd definitely get on my nerves in private too. And his archetypes are AI-generated.

I had already seen satirical and quite funny description of archetypes ten years ago, when I started with tango, on two German tango blogs. This is one I immediately found:

Der Annett-Louisan-Aufleger - Eine Polemik

Cassiels deutschsprachiges Blog mit Randnotizen zum argentinischen Tango.

tangoplauderei.blogspot.com

 

[TTanguero]

And yes, I've seen all of the above in person

I've never seen anything like the examples you give, but one thing that's very curious about London tango is how few black faces you see. Tango here is significantly whiter than the population of the city, but there are a significant number of East Asian and South Asian dancers, while black dancers are a tiny minority.

 

[opendoor]

..already seen satirical and quite funny description of archetypes ten years ago, when I started with tango, on two German tango blogs..

Spoiler (Partly off-topic, as we now delve deeper into the frictions within the German tango scene at the beginning of this century.)

Regardless of specific content, which we could of course discuss, you've now expanded the list of authors suspected of being cringeworthy. The problem lies in the eccentric personalities of these figures or their aggressive style. Unlike the borderline personality Miranda brought up, the person you mentioned now is inconspicuous in civilian life as well as at the milonga. However, he fueled the polarization of the scene, which I didn't consider appropriate.

 

[opendoor]

..curious about London tango is how few black faces you see...

You raise an important point. I, too, have wondered why there's only one black regular tango dancer in my scene (which is roughly comparable in size to JiT's ). And there are also only a maximum of 10 black salseros around. And there isn't currently A single black lindy hopper!
I can honestly say that the tango and the lindy scene in my city are very open and skin color doesn't matter. Of course, Germany has hardly any colonial past; immigrants from Africa have only arrived in the recent 30 years. And here we come to the heart of the problem: the tango scene in my city has sociological characteristics, and if there are no black dancers, then they haven't been able to integrate into the cultural bourgeois or academic circles and the corresponding professions. There are many vivid black dance scenes in my city, Anglophone and Lusitanian ones, but they don't overlap.

 

[Rabbit]

I've never seen anything like the examples you give, but one thing that's very curious about London tango is how few black faces you see. Tango here is significantly whiter than the population of the city, but there are a significant number of East Asian and South Asian dancers, while black dancers are a tiny minority.

Actually I would say "white" is too general of a classification in this case, and people from southern or eastern Europe are just as overrepresented in the London tango scene relative to the overall city population as east Asia. South Asia seems roughly proportionally representative.

Maybe part of the reason for this is is just that if there are a bunch of people from a similar cultural background in a scene anyway it adds to the attraction of the scene as a place to hang out, occasionally chat in mother tongues etc.

 

[JournalInTime]

Maybe part of the reason for this is is just that if there are a bunch of people from a similar cultural background in a scene anyway it adds to the attraction of the scene as a place to hang out, occasionally chat in mother tongues etc.

Especially the chatting part! Three evenings ago, I heard more Bulgarian, Mandarin, and Spanish around me than French or English. Yesterday evening, add Turkish. Last week, add Armenian, Japanese, and Russian. I speak only French and English – so that's my firsthand experience – but it's interesting that we have many East Asians, Eastern Europeans, South Americans (more Chileans than Argentines, interestingly), and Turks here . . . and yes, they gather as much to chat in their native tongue as to dance. Notably underrepresented are all of Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia.

 

[brujo]

Actually I would say "white" is too general of a classification in this case, and people from southern or eastern Europe are just as overrepresented in the London tango scene relative to the overall city population as east Asia. South Asia seems roughly proportionally representative.

Also a lot of Argentinians look white and you can't tell they are Argentinians until you start talking to them.

 

[opendoor]

Also a lot of Argentinians look white and you can't tell they a..

And that, too, is tango history. There is no longer a distinct black tango identity. The black tango (criollo) was wiped out on the battlefields of South America. The Guardia Vieja therefore claimed tango for themselves, and the Guardia Nueva copied European tastes. Also tango nuevo has strong ties to the Parisian exile community. For years, Horacio Salgán was the figurehead of diversity in tango because he had a black grandmother. During my active years Facundo was the exception, but he too, came from a white barrio. The remaining criollos today identify more with candombe. (Not to be confused with the milonga candombe which basically is a typical milonga with the exception of drums).

 

[opendoor]

..heard more Bulgarian, Mandarin, and Spanish..

How do you know it was Mandarin? All the Chinese people I know speak the southern languages.

 

[JournalInTime]

How do you know it was Mandarin? All the Chinese people I know speak the southern languages.

Because I know the people in question.