What makes you cringe in tango?

The AI can't read the room yet. Apart from that, I could already write a program to generate serviceable milonga playlists based on my own curation if I wanted to, but I am not sure it is a good idea to release such a thing.
Defining and coding algorithms might already be much effort. One small step is still needed to make an AI Tandaplayer so attractive to organizers that they, in return, provide photos of their milonga along with their ratings, allowing the AI model to be further trained. And presumably, participants will then also have an app on their phones that shows them what's currently being played on the milonga and allows them to provide feedback for further training of the AI.

From a mail I got:
This major update brings the new Tanda listening mode and offers alternative versions of the track you're currently playing. It tightens the link with the El Recodo Tango Music database and the Tanda Manager. Here’s what’s new…
Many of these improvements come from our growing community: thanks for supporting, sharing, and making El Recodo an inspiring space for all Tango lovers.
 
And presumably, participants will then also have an app on their phones that shows them what's currently being played on the milonga and allows them to provide feedback for further training of the AI.

It could be fun to have people vote on the next tanda in real time, but honestly I think most people don't want the effort. I occasionally ask people if they have favourite song requests, but they usually don't
 
Exactly thats why I started collecting shellacs. I want to be a minority. I can do things that only a few still can. The ones I know of are Zingo in Brussels, Michael Rühl in Berlin, Michael Thiele in Cologne, Thomas Jordan in Dresden, Volkmar Hess in Viersen and Fernando Vicente of TT.
FWIW, Richard Garrido from Paris was shellac TDJ at an event of "Zingo" this year.
 
It could be fun to have people vote on the next tanda in real time, but honestly I think most people don't want the effort. I occasionally ask people if they have favourite song requests, but they usually don't
I like the silent disco method where there is sometimes a light that shows what people are listening from the choices, but anything that requires a phone or for people to be away from each other would suck.

Maybe like a visual vote system that is offline? I can imagine the DJ has a little monitor in front of him that has something like "Blue - Pugliese" | "Red - D'Arienzo" and people have a little flap at the tables where they can choose who to vote for. I'm thinking like those little flags at at Brazilian BBQ restaurants that you flip over when you're full or something like that. Or even something like a two colored slap bracelet.

You can even have things like "Blue - Chacarena" | "Red - Milonga". Depending on the crowd this could be a lot of fun and a great conversation starter
 
imo having the audience vote for the next tanda or anything like that feels too gimmicky and insulting to the actual dj

Well, yes, unless it were obscured by the filthy, delectable stench of money... But why would you need a DJ except to prepare the tandas in advance?
 
Well, yes, unless it were obscured by the filthy, delectable stench of money... But why would you need a DJ except to prepare the tandas in advance?
What money…tango professionals barely make any. I think in nyc at least, the majority of the non professional tango dancers have jobs that make more than ones doing it full time professionally, it has way more of a white collar demographic than other dances I think.
The top 1% are probably just the famous ones in BA who are just price gauging tourists, or Chicho who can run $400/person intensive weekend workshop seminars a few times a year.
 
All this AI talk made me try to write a tango story ( with AI, sorry ). Can't say I hate what came out:

The Mejor Aires milonga was the only deviation in my otherwise perfectly flat life. Every Tuesday I took the automated transit to the old city sector. I didn't go for socialization. I went for the reliable fiction.

The moment the thick velvet curtain parted, I was immersed in the venue's deliberate anachronism. The main hall was dimly lit by heavy, iron chandeliers whose electric candles flickered with a warm, deceptive glow. The walls were clad in dark mahogany paneling, salvaged from a pre-collapse opera house, and the air was subtly filtered to carry the faint, nostalgic scent of aged leather. Wobbly tables with elaborate red tablecloth. It was a perfect, contained moment of the past, and I was deeply comforted by its predictable charm. A perfect snapshot of a city that no longer exists.

I stood by the low, polished wooden bar, nursing a synthetic Malbec that tasted exactly like the real thing, watching the dancers.

Then I saw her.

She was tall with effortless grace. Her dark hair was neatly pinned back, and she wore a simple, unadorned black dress that moved with her like ink in water. She was striking, not in a flashy way, but in the quiet, absolute confidence of her posture.

I watched her dance with another Synth for a few minutes. Her movements were fluid and deeply connected to the rhythm, a kind of beautiful, dark poetry expressed through her body. I admired the programming effort it must have taken to achieve that level of organic responsiveness. It was stunning to witness.

After the song ended, she scanned the room. I offered the cabeceo, the silent nod of invitation. Her eyes met mine and accepted. She was, without question, the most advanced taxi dancer Synth I had ever encountered.

Her hand on my back was cool and steady, and as we began to move, I focused entirely on her mechanical perfection. I tightened my embrace, enjoying the firm, resilient feel of her. I concentrated on leading, knowing she would follow precisely, correcting my inevitable human errors with flawless, silent adjustment. This was perfect. This was safe. I allowed myself to feel the intense, thrilling flow of the music and the movement, convinced I was experiencing the pinnacle of robotic engineering.

One song. Then another. We flowed.

The music slowed and was replaced by a synth pop break. I felt the familiar pang of regret—the dance was over, and the illusion must end.

We walked off the floor, and that’s when she pulled out a sleek communication device.

“Ah, good,” she said, her voice rich and melodic, looking down at the screen. Her face, which I had just admired for its perfectly rendered melancholy, softened into an expression of warm, distracted relief. “That’s my sitter. Little Lucas just finished his bath. I promised I'd be back before he had to do his reading practice.” She looked up. “I’m Helena, by the way. It was a beautiful dance. Thank you.”

My mind seized. Lucas. Bath time. Reading practice. Sitter.

She wasn't a construct. She was a person. A woman with a life that was messy and real. All my intellectual admiration for her programming was a cruel, embarrassing joke. I had been touching a real human being, and she was breathtakingly out of my league.

She gave a genuine, gentle smile. Then, she opened her arms wide. She was offering a hug, a casual, genuine human comfort.

The deep, fundamental ache for human touch overrode my panic. I stepped forward and awkwardly returned the hug. Her warmth was immediate, soft yet firm. How long had it been? Five years? Seven? A decade since I had last wrapped my arms around another human being?

“Thank you. I loved how you snuck in those cute little adornos in there,” I stammered. “Let’s dance again soon,” I lied.
 
Hilarious! It’s all about the prompts. Anyone else want to have a go? We should start a thread with short stories. Cringy, non cringy, AI enhanced or not. Doesn’t the world need a few more tango books? I’d totally buy a book that’s a collection of tango short stories.
 
Prejudice at the milonga is 100% cringe.

If you won't dance with somebody because of their ethnicity, skin color, language, socioeconomic status, sexual orientation, etc., you are a cringeworthy person. If you believe that people in some such group shouldn't even be at the milonga, you are a highly cringeworthy person.
  • ... In 2018: A Black woman who sat forever until I invited her to dance. She danced well. Then she sat more afterward. ...
All but one of the bullets referenced cringeworthy utterances (removed for brevity), I'm shocked you heard those. One that I think deserves some more discussion is the one in the quote above.

This sounds like an intent crime, very hard to prove. I see white, asian, latino, and black ladies who sit unasked at milongas. I also see white, asian, latino, and black ladies who dance nonstop. It could be a skin color prejudice, or maybe could it be the Tango snobbery thing that seems to be aimed at visitors of all skin colors? Do you also get black lady visitors (or regulars) who dance a lot? Did this lady speak French?

That I have seen, black ladies seem to do better than average at getting dances. This could be a statistics of small numbers thing, coupled with survival-of-the-fittest (good dancer).

Just to be sure everyone knows I know: In Tango I do see ageism (younger ladies are more likely to be asked), clothesism (ladies wearing Tango shoes, dresses, and makeup get asked more), and sizeism (thinner ladies are asked more).

It is exceedingly rare I hear dirty jokes, sexist comments, or racist comments, in or outside of Tango. Tango was perfect, no bad comments until this summer. Twice I heard comments (separate events) where inserting a race adjective was uncomfortable to hear. I'm in a huge scene now, so I suppose that was statistically more likely to happen.
 
imo having the audience vote for the next tanda or anything like that feels too gimmicky and insulting to the actual dj
Totally agree. Votes, especially referendums, don't have a good reputation here. I suppose you could have a performance whilst votes collected and disputed:rolleyes: (maybe even a reading of a tango story for a cortina!). With a TDJ I'll go for benign dictatorship. If they're rubbish, then they can be deposed.

The basic format nowadays has reasons. It can be adjusted as necessary.
 
This sounds like an intent crime, very hard to prove. I see white, asian, latino, and black ladies who sit unasked at milongas. I also see white, asian, latino, and black ladies who dance nonstop. It could be a skin color prejudice, or maybe could it be the Tango snobbery thing that seems to be aimed at visitors of all skin colors? Do you also get black lady visitors (or regulars) who dance a lot? Did this lady speak French?

I had similar thoughts. Was it a result of tango snobbery or unwillingness to invite due to her being black.

In salsa which is much larger and has far higher participation of black ladies, there have been complaints of not getting asked by the black guys in particular. Salsa is far more democratic and as a neutral observer it is very hard to tell if some one of a particular characteristic is not getting average number of dances.

One thing I have noticed and have also being told is popularity of black guys in European salsa and kizomba scenes. They are very visible. While black followers are almost invisible and not easily found.

NYC salsa scene is different. It is huge and multi-cultural.

On the west coast while the metro area is a melting pot with most dancers who moved here from elsewhere, the African-American participation in social dancing (Tango, Salsa, Kizomba, Zouk, Bachata, Fusion, Blues) is extremely low. Among few people who are black in social dancing that I know or danced with (which will be almost all of them), almost all moved here from Africa. There may be three or four black followers in local tango that I am aware of and all moved here from some African country.

That I have seen, black ladies seem to do better than average at getting dances. This could be a statistics of small numbers thing, coupled with survival-of-the-fittest (good dancer).
Very likely. Irrespective of gender, the perception is that the blacks tend to be better or more natural dancers (not tango specific). Experience bears it out too. That might sound like racist take but the perception does exist.

 

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