What should tango vals look and feel like?

[bordertangoman]

. IMHO, vals is one the smoothest dances on the planet...

Angel_hi

my idea of what a vals feels like is best expressed when I dance with people who come from a ballroom background; they know what a waltz is and how you move to it.

In the Tango Lesson Pablo Veron and Sally Potter's vals on the banks of the Seine is full of flowing movement and turns and changes of direction.

(Is this being taught anywhere?)

But what I see at milongas are people treating it as just another rhythm to step to.
Fine if you are in a packed milongs in BsAs; you have to adapt to the space available
but in the UK there's a sort of traditional minimalism; that reduces it to small steps even where there is space aplenty.

this is one example, albeit very showy, of how I think a vals should be;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2Ab8LFJZBk

(i tried embedding it but just got a white square.)
what do you think?

 

[Peaches]

In the Tango Lesson Pablo Veron and Sally Potter's vals on the banks of the Seine is full of flowing movement and turns and changes of direction.

That's how I love vals to feel as well. Continuous, flowing, lots of circular/rotational movements, lots of changes of direction. Ideally, lots of playing with the momentum flow in the music and in our bodies. Unfortunately, I can probably count on one hand the number of leaders I run across who do this.

(Is this being taught anywhere?)

I sort of had a workshop class on it once. The idea was used as a starting point for talking about musicality. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to make a difference with most people.

But what I see at milongas are people treating it as just another rhythm to step to.

It's not just the UK. It's the exact same way here. Most disappointing.

 

[UKDancer]

I am looking forward to being able to apply my Ballroom experience, and Viennese Waltz in particular, to Vals, once I feel a little more confident in the tango style of movement. I have no real repertoire can use yet, and don't trust myself not to just start waltzing!

 

[Mladenac]

tango vals is more complex in musicality that viennese valtz so it is impossible to compare.
Some general thought about circularity and fluidity may apply.

This vals is perfect example of what I said:

 

[JohnEm]

I am looking forward to being able to apply my Ballroom experience, and Viennese Waltz in particular, to Vals, once I feel a little more confident in the tango style of movement. I have no real repertoire can use yet, and don't trust myself not to just start waltzing!

I'm assuming you're a leader.
The big change you'll find is the completely opposite approach to weight
changing in Tango. Your Viennese and slow waltz experience is based on
automatic step patterns and weight changing and requiring a definite
hesitation hold to prevent it. My problem in Tango has been to lead in time
weight changes whenever I've attempted a ballroom feel Vals.

Nevertheless the best vals I've ever had was with a dancer from a ballroom
background. Towards the end we were flying round hitting every beat Tete style.

For the moment work on turns - something many leaders don't do much.
And be prepared to be frustrated by all the non-moving couples still doing
their normal tango while you want to flow and rotate to that lovely music
around the floor.

You'll love it! Eventually. And when you get it right,
the real dancers amongst the ladies will seek you out.

 

[bordertangoman]

tango vals is more complex in musicality that viennese valtz so it is impossible to compare.
Some general thought about circularity and fluidity may apply.

This vals is perfect example of what I said:
[yt]JaGaVcMZD1A[/yt]

i agree; its a very nice example, thank you.

All their movements have a fluidity.

 

[JohnEm]

tango vals is more complex in musicality that viennese valtz so it is impossible to compare.
Some general thought about circularity and fluidity may apply.

This vals is perfect example of what I said:

Oh dear, oh dear. Don't try that on a social floor.

I'm no musical expert but as far as I know Argentine Vals is Viennese Waltz
played with Tango instrumentation. Certainly sounds like it to me.

What is different is not the complexity of the Vals music but the potential
complexity of the dance. Viennese is fast, rotating but with little variation
in pattern. Vals can be be both slow, fast and changing.
Whatever the music inspires.

 

[AndaBien]

...I'm no musical expert but as far as I know Argentine Vals is Viennese Waltz played with Tango instrumentation. Certainly sounds like it to me...

I think the standard tempo for Viennese Waltz is 180 BPM. Some Tango Vals are that slow (yes, slow), but many are quicker, up to around 230 BPM. That would be a brisk Viennese Waltz.

 

[bordertangoman]

Oh dear, oh dear. Don't try that on a social floor.

the problem is that most tango dancers are too slow moving around the floor; the line of dance needs a speed minimum otherwise its like being a porsche in the slow lane of a motorway.

 

[Mladenac]

Oh dear, oh dear. Don't try that on a social floor.

I meant on pauses in music and fluidity in movement.
I don't have intention on leading ganchos and boles on crowded social floor.

 

[UKDancer]

I think the standard tempo for Viennese Waltz is 180 BPM. Some Tango Vals are that slow (yes, slow), but many are quicker, up to around 230 BPM. That would be a brisk Viennese Waltz.

But surely most Vals is danced on the first beat of three only, whereas Viennese Waltz is always danced on each beat. That makes a huge difference to the 'speed' of the dance.

I'd love to try leading fleckerls with a follower, perhaps pursuading her that it was new form of giro? Not at 230 bpm, though!

 

[newbie]

Find a video of a vals danced by Julio Balmaceda. It must look like this.

 

[AndaBien]

But surely most Vals is danced on the first beat of three only, whereas Viennese Waltz is always danced on each beat. That makes a huge difference to the 'speed' of the dance...

Yes, of course. Beats 2 or 3 often are used also, but it's probably not often that all three beats would be used, and certainly not continuously.

 

[Peaches]

But surely most Vals is danced on the first beat of three only

Not in my experience. IME, vals is danced to anything and everything. Sometimes just the 1, sometimes the 1 and 3...or 1 and 2...or on half beats to emphasize various things...or or or... Kinda like tango and milonga, unsurprisingly.

 

[Mladenac]

I had musicality class on vals.

And it was playing with 1 2 3 beats. It was fun.
how to interpret and play.
Put white plastic glasses and red onto white to mark the beat.
Play and see what you can find. :banana: