When group classes dominate the floor

[Chris Stratton]

let me add this to the mix-- all my comp. couples over the yrs ( and Iv,e had hundreds ) and my Intern . types, would NEVER come in during a group session, neither would i ask them to. have worked in n.y.c. chain schools under the most adverse space conditions, where mandatory groups took place on a reg. nitely basis,and-- trying to teach brand new students in the same room has lead to more losses than you can ever imagine .And, the more people know, the more demanding they become about space ( as a general rule ) and will not book in during class hrs.

The comment about brand new students is right on... but that about more knowledgeable dancers misses the difference between desires and what is sometimes necessary. Everyone wants space - but the more skilled a dancer is, the more they can learn even under less optimal situations, because they have a greater ability to learn skills in settings abstract from their application (indeed, that is the only efficient way of learning many skills)

There are people I'd take lessons from in a broom closet...

Quite seriously, some of my most useful lessons have barely involved dancing. For example, a technique lesson taken solo with a visiting (male) coach. Sure, we danced a few figures together, but mostly what I did was get answers to long puzzling questions about fundamental issues. Being coached in the artistic aspects of your dancing around.... anyone can do that, even many non-dancers. But correcting key issues... that takes someone who really knows their stuff. If a studio has such a person on staff or visting, students sophisticated enough to realize that will value their time, even under adverse conditions.

 

[tangotime]

chris

Chris-- that has NOTHING to do with running A STUDIO ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS-PERIOD. !

 

[Chris Stratton]

Chris-- that has NOTHING to do with running A STUDIO ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS-PERIOD. !

It all depends on the purpose of the studio. If you consider a studio as a place that sells dancing, then you are right. If you consider it an academy of dancing, then you are wrong.

And if in the likely case that it's something of both, then each side of the business has different requirements.

 

[Medira]

Cool down a bit guys...

 

[tangotime]

Chris

What fantasy world do you live in ?-- apparently not the one in which i have owned, managed and taught .The point of his / or her q. was . , their frustration over time conflicts. i gave what i considered very plausable solutions. And to re direct an answer which is virtually a non sequitor to their dilemma , did not address their problem but more yours .lastly, it amazes me how anyone out side of my profession, can seemingly come up with simple solutions to complex problems, when never having worked in same on daily basis. i would never presume to inform you or any one else how to rectify your business problems ( although I do have the background for that ) . But, you seem to have an answer for nearly everything surrounding this business .And lastly, no matter what your dance "intent " as an owner may be . profit has always got to be at the forefront of any artistic endeavour.-- or you will not survive .

 

[fascination]

let's take a respectful tone...expertise or experience is not the only attribute around here meriting a person a respectful response...medira has made a point and I think it had best be honored

 

[Chris Stratton]

What fantasy world do you live in ?-- apparently not the one in which i have owned, managed and taught .

Well, a typical and quite common situation would be a studio that functions in the way you think of, except that the studio owner themselves has a number of couples that are much more dance-academy students than typical studio clients. Their needs are different - their complaints may be the same, but their needs are different, and thus they can make use of opportunities that the other clients can't, and will take those opportunities if they need help and those are all that are available.

The point of his / or her q. was . , their frustration over time conflicts. i gave what i considered very plausable solutions. And to re direct an answer which is virtually a non sequitor to their dilemma , did not address their problem but more yours .lastly, it amazes me how anyone out side of my profession, can seemingly come up with simple solutions to complex problems, when never having worked in same on daily basis. i would never presume to inform you or any one else how to rectify your business problems ( although I do have the background for that ) .

It seems to me that you said that a teacher should refuse to teach me if the studio is going to be overcrowded. I strongly object to that - if I need help and that is the teacher's only free hour, and I want it anyway, then who are you to recommend that I can't have it?

Wheras what I said is that some types of lessons will work under difficult circumstances, and some won't, and that this will quickly sort itself out.

 

[tangotime]

chris

I did not say you could not take the lesson, my point was, I would not reccommend it., if you want to take it in the parking lot- i dont care; and we are trying to address a far more fundamental problem , that of class and priv. going on in the same room with limited space with essentially social type dancers , the majority of the student body, in most schools , in most cities outside of n.y. .And i hasten to remind you that i was dance " raised " in an english system where never the twain would meet , and as you may or may not be aware, many schools in the u.k. back in the day, refused entry to comp. dancers on social evenings.We were given our own time, generally after a class .Finally , we can go round and round on this problem, but ironically , it probably will not solve anything, most if not all, owners do not read these kinds of sites, and even if they did, would they change ?.p.s.-- before anyone begs the q, why not larger premises with multiple rooms ? only one reason-- cost

 

[Al Gisnered]

Of course that is not the whole story... it is also necessary to have lessons that address issues involved in full and continued movement, and I have in at least one recent instance discontinued a set of lessons in part due to lack of space to work on some of my goals.

Lack of space is a serious concern, but it doesn't mean that nothing productive can be accomplished during that time, it just means that lessons need to be scheduled for purposes that can tolerate a lack of space.

Chris, it's true that in any one lesson, or even several successive lessons, that the focus might be on an element or two of a particular movement or technique. I would call that a "Coaching". Eventually, as you note, the technique has to be experienced in full dancing. I would call the establishment of a continuous developmental program "Lessons".

I agree with Tangotime, only from the consumers point of view.

Lets take a f"r instance: in mid July, slow time at the studio, and they offer me a standing lesson at 7:00 PM on Tuesdays for a set of 6 lessons in Standard with a teacher I've wanted to work with. It fits my schedule, fits my partner's schedule, fits my teacher's schedule. I book and pre-pay. There are two other privates scheduled at the same time but they're working on Smooth so there are no real conflicts. I make great progress in July and August and my partner and I are as happy as a clams. At the end of August I agree to another set of six and pre-pay. Just one problem, the studio neglected to mention that, starting the first week of September, they've scheduled:

"Introduction to Ballroom Dancing." -
"Take advantage of this opportunity to learn 6 popular yadda yadda yadda."
"No partner necessary"
"7:00 PM to 8 PM every Tuesday for 8 weeks"

The class is filled - 28 hopefuls attend, the teacher is very good at presenting the material, everyone loves the first class.

However, over the 8 weeks the attrition rate is high - only 10 make it to the end of the session because they found the private students "zooming around the floor" distracting at the least. And there were music conflicts. It's almost impossible for newbies to practice the cha-cha basic when waltz is being played. 18 newbies certainly won't be back, and possibly only three or four will be interested in "Advanced" because, while the teacher was good, their overall experience was less than satisfying.

I end up for the 6 weeks sharing the studio with 22 (and diminishing) people plus teacher; me, my partner, and teacher; and possibly 2 other private lessons. I'm trying to integrate specific techniques into my Standard, but it's stop and go traffic only. And to be honest, I find it hard to remeber the points I'm trying to integrate into my Quickstep while a Rumba plays for any length of time. Bummer.

I don't know about you, but I'd start agitating for relief about week two of the first session of "Introduction". Since I'd only prepaid for that set, if I didn't get relief (great teacher not withstanding) I'd walk. Have walked. Evidently, so have you.

The studio is left with a single and a couple who may or may not continue. They've lost, potentially, myself and partner, possibly one of the other private lessons and possibly 10 or 12 newbies students because of the conflict.

And don't forget that many here on DF pre pay much more substantial agreements than 6 weeks.

Ain't easy.

 

[musicchica86]

Hmm...would it be possible to maybe section off a certain part of the floor for group classes? I know that's what we do at my studio (except for Saturday nights before the socials when EVERYBODY'S in 2 big group classes). Of course, our floor's rather large, but we have curtains up over different parts of the floor. Group classes can move into one of these areas and pull the curtains so they're not distracting/being distracted by the private lessons.

Of course, music's still an issue, but at least that takes care of the visual.

 

[fascination]

well ya can't section off a group class of 18 waltzers (ala OP) but beyond that I really don't see the big fuss

 

[waltzgirl]

I guess I'm reallly lucky! The studio I'm at has two rooms and they only schedule group classes in the smaller room. The larger room is for private lessons. On a busy evening, there can be half a dozen privates, so you learn floorcraft fast, but the only real problem is having to dance while completely inappropriate music is playing. I discovered a while ago that I had unconsciously developed a habit of tuning out the music when I danced, that carried over when the right was music was on! But once I was aware of it, I learned to switch my attention to the music on and off. Still, whenever I can, I schedule lessons during the day when it's much less crowded.

 

[Laura]

The studio where I took for years and years would not let anything else be on the floor when there was a group class. So that meant that most private lessons and practices had to be over by 7pm, although there was a TINY alternate ballroom were some lessons would take place. I always had my lessons around 3 or 4 in the afternoon, though, and would practice from 5:30-7:00, so that was never a big problem for me. And it was REALLY nice to be taking a group class where there weren't other things going on in the room at the same time.

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

I'd have to say that it's an unrealistic expectation if a) people come to a group class scheduled for the business day evening and expect to have no other activity going on and distracting them or b) people booking a lesson on a business day evening and expecting to do minimum amount of sharing the floor and the music system.

Our studio has sort of competition-sized floor - it is longer, but narrower, so the sq. footage is about the same. Somehow everyone manages to share, even at the busiest times.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I book and pre-pay.

Well there's the problem right there.

Pre-payment for multiple lessons prevents issues from working themselves out naturally....

I'm trying to integrate specific techniques into my Standard, but it's stop and go traffic only. And to be honest, I find it hard to remeber the points I'm trying to integrate into my Quickstep while a Rumba plays for any length of time. Bummer.

Unless your teacher is your partner, a lesson is not primarily the time to integrate techniques - it is the time to learn them to the point where you can practice using them - at a time when there is more floor space, but the teacher may not be available (not infrequently late at night).

But when the teacher is a key part of the application - such as a pro-am lesson, then that's one of the times when the floor space to really do it is most critical (and that was the situation in which I stopped a series of lessons due in large part to space issues)

Chris, it's true that in any one lesson, or even several successive lessons, that the focus might be on an element or two of a particular movement or technique. I would call that a "Coaching". Eventually, as you note, the technique has to be experienced in full dancing. I would call the establishment of a continuous developmental program "Lessons".

I would use the terms in the opposite way - "coaching" to me implies support of performance, artistic aspects, and frankly, personal aspects, while 'teaching' covers the more literal issues of how to do something. In terms of long-term success, coaching is important for maintenance of dance-readiness and for competitive polish, but it's the presence or abscence of teaching that makes the difference in the success of the actual dancing - and the outstanding issues there would not usually requires much floor space to address at all.