Why some women are not asked to dance

But that is a week argument, fiesta ! A gender may nevertheless exist, although it is not explicetly linguistically highlighted. I have already aske hundreds of Londoners: what gender has the river Thames? And they all answer instantly: male of course! There are Londoners around in this forum, too: what about your perception of the river Thames?
This is a well-studied phenomenon: explicit grammatical gender vs implicit gender.

To illustrate this: the Thames is not grammatically male. There are two reasons that people report report "male" in cases like you mention:
  1. Neuter was not given as an option. In such cases, neuter concepts tends to default to masculine, which is one of the more nuanced parts of the "default to masculine" idea I mentioned.

  2. In ungendered language, people still do semantic categorization. When pressed, they can consider the salient features of an idea, compare it to their internal model of gender traits, and pick whichever one lines up better. In this kind of categorization, people seldom choose "none of the above" as a category, because our minds are naturally pattern-seeking, and none-of-the-above denotes the lack of a pattern.

    But this is not grammatical gender, because those implicit-gender assumptions are cancelable. I can refer to the Thames as "she," and people will accept is as grammatical. Stilted and poetic, and possibly odd, but grammatical.
In other words, you're conflating abstract semantic categorization with gendered language. They aren't the same thing.

The best example I can think of for this is the English word nurse. It is unmarked for gender, and can refer to a man or a woman grammatically with no issues ("He's a nurse"). But you sometimes see the odd construction male nurse, because the term often semantically categorizes as feminine and there are cases where you want to explicitly override that assumption.

Female nurse, while even less common, is also grammatical. If nurse were grammatically gendered, at least one of these constructions would not be permitted.
 
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Thank you for replying that detailed, fiesta. But I fear, finally its not a linguistical issue. Its rather a philosophical question: you start at the grammatical form, whereas I start at something essential far behind it. I state that there is a natural gender. This gender is retained even if it is not specifically expressed grammatically. I'm not analytical, I just follow continental thought.
 
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I knew there were many male engineers and female hairdressers in tango...
Direct hit. I'm a male engineer and last Sunday I danced with a female hairdresser.
(She's the only one I know in tango, FWIW.)

There are two major problems in tango: women who get not asked and men who get not accepted.
And so I asked her with a smile and she accepted with a smile, pleasant tanda after pleasant tanda, for hours, with occasional breaks to chat a bit of course.

My not gender-free language - not an issue.
My heteronormative role expectation - not an issue.
That it was her job to provide food - not an issue.
That it was my job to provide music - not an issue.

I can understand that feminists get a crisis when it comes to tango!
 
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opendoor,
I'm not sure anyone knows "why" it lost gender. But web sources it was well on the way to losing gender in the 11th century.

There are a few nouns that have gender (widow, widower, waiter, waitress), but most don't. I don't think anyone says "aviatrix" any more. I think people do say "executrix" sometimes. Though after you say it and get a puzzled look, you just say "executor". I suspect widow/widower will stick around but the few other nouns with a gender will vanish.

As for "disk jockey", I don't think "jockey" is gendered. Most professional jockeys are male. The lower body fat typical of males means they tend to have more strength at the same mass which is helpful when you want to weigh as little as possible to not burden the horse but also be strong. But the word doesn't mean "male who rides horses in races" and also doesn't mean "person who could benefit from wearing a jock strap when riding horses". A woman who rides horses in races is also a jockey.

Some people jump to conclusions about gender with some words. They assume "teacher" and "nurse" are women and "doctor" or "engineer" are men. But the words themselves don't actually have any gender.
 
I actually haven't met any hairdressers through tango, which is highly inconvenient right now (I could use one)
In Argentina, beauty salons are closed on Mondays and if you go to a Monday or Sunday milonga, it is usually packed with hairdressers, manicurists, pedicurists, etc. Engineers go anytime, but there are plenty of them too. Dentists (male and female) are frequent too but not as much.
 
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Last year somebody told me that it is a taboo to ask a Tango what he/she does for a living. After 10 years in Tango.

It's an interesting topic, though, after seeing your posts here. It looks like there are cultural/regional differences. In my country of origin, there are mostly middle class with academic degree Tango dancers. In Germany is a mix, I think. What about other countries/regions?
 
Sadly I don't think I've knowingly met a hairdresser in tango, hence my current DIY lockdown haircut ...

Lots in IT, engineering, medicine, academia, writing and marketing.
 
..somebody told me that it is a taboo to ask.. what he/she does for a living..
That's right, you don't ask about your profession. But still we actually always know. And if we don't know, then we come up with nicknames: the butcher, the head nurse ...
 
If we are friends with someone on fb, or if we are friends, sometimes sit together on milongas, practice together or travel together, i know what they do for a living. People mention things, it is not a big secret. But unless they mention, i dont ask, because it isnt very relevant. It is a mix, from students to street sweepers to university professors.
 
That's right, you don't ask about your profession. But still we actually always know. And if we don't know, then we come up with nicknames: the butcher, the head nurse ...
The bully boys, huh!
I wonder what I would be called then, I would suggest 'the witch'
 
Asking someone's job is more of a social thing anyway. It also depends where you live and where you dance (i.e. what type of people can afford to live there).

Around us, mostly older or retired, but engineers of all shades, IT, researchers, lecturers (nearby universities and research establishments), teachers, medics, etc. But also taxi drivers (only found out because they had to collect a fare) and shop assistants.

Danced in other areas and it can change. But it's not the BsAs neighbourhoods of myth.
 
The bully boys, huh!
I wonder what I would be called then, I would suggest 'the witch'

you mean La Bruja! I always thought the old Argentinian way of giving people nicknames in milongas was cute. Not really practical to be anonymous these days though.
 
But I fear, finally its not a linguistical issue. Its rather a philosophical question: you start at the grammatical form, whereas I start at something essential far behind it. I state that there is a natural gender. This gender is retained even if it is not specifically expressed grammatically.
Philosophical indeed. But assuming everything has natural gender, in the context of gendered language, is certainly an example of begging the question.
 

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