Why some women are not asked to dance

[raindance]

Agree totally. But a skilled attentive teacher can retain more people as they go through challenging beginners phase. There will always be attrition. Good teachers can make a small dent into it.

Yes, and a welcoming community (whether dance, music, scuba, or whatever else) can help with retention, too. If you want to keep the community going, you certainly want to retain the ones that have an interest in staying, not scare them off. But some will not stay regardless, it's just the nature of people exploring and finding what activities they want to stick with.

 

[JournalInTime]

In fact, most of my current coaching has nothing to do with technique and a great deal to do with expression (musicality) and borrowing between styles to accomplish expression.

I just got back from a coaching session. My coach said, "Forget about technique. You have that and I don't want to see that. I want to see the music. Let's work on emotion." That is what I meant when I said, "Maybe they did X years of lessons and work to improve, and are wonderful." I hope one day people will look at me dancing and think that . . . but I'm a long way from being there right now.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

For me that's not always true. If the teachers focus on embrace, posture, balance, basic steps, beginner followers can be great joy to dance with after very few classes. Sadly, more and more teachers take students who struggle to keep their balance even while walking and introduce them to boleos etc.

Mmm. It's not always true, no, assuming you do it once in while and the beginner has had a few months training. If you keep your dancing simple and they've had a good instructor, it can be enjoyable. But at a milonga, I really do like to dance.

 

[Bailango]

Mmm. It's not always true, no, assuming you do it once in while and the beginner has had a few months training. If you keep your dancing simple and they've had a good instructor, it can be enjoyable. But at a milonga, I really do like to dance.

Can’t parse what you said. You don’t really like to dance simple at milonga and enjoy it? I like to keep my dances simple with advance followers too. They are simple but intricate. I don’t do too much or any of ganchos, volcadas, and other such moves.

 

[Bailango]

I just got back from a coaching session. My coach said, "Forget about technique. You have that and I don't want to see that. I want to see the music. Let's work on emotion." That is what I meant when I said, "Maybe they did X years of lessons and work to improve, and are wonderful." I hope one day people will look at me dancing and think that . . . but I'm a long way from being there right now.

Given amount of training you have in tango and your understanding of it, I am curious what you are doing to improve the musicality or musical emotions in your dancing further. What are the methods you employ. In what way does coach help you, that you won’t be able to do yourself. Is coach more for validation and evaluation?

I did take a few musicality workshop (not many get offered). I tried to to privates for musicality. It didn’t do much for me. The musicality workshops did point me in a certain direction. For the past several years my main intention in dancing is about expressing the music. I think within what I can do I have a good technical foundation. There is always a room for improvement as with everything else. Whether at milonga or at practica I consciously try to make the dance musicality first. It is a delight if the follower is also adding to it. Most followers I dance with generally don’t. I don’t have any regular partner. If I got to practica, half the time I end up helping partners with technique related issues. These are acquaintances I dance with regularly at milongas.

I do receive positive comments on musicality, which have increased in frequency in the past few years. Some of the best compliments I get is when dancing with the musicians when they are taking a break from a live set. They come between the songs in a Tanda and are more specific, e.g. about hearing things in music which they thought I captured as a dancer and they appreciate it as a musician. Which is usually followed by comment “most dancers don’t hear that”. It is challenging to find partners who understand what I am doing musically just as it is challenging to find partners that can own their musicality. When I say partners who don’t understand, it is like they enjoyed the ride but can’t explain what was enjoyable.

 

[opendoor]

There is a thread on the tango board about why women aren’t asked to dance. I don’t want to be chosen like a cut of meat, looked up and down and assessed for age, marital status, hotness, approachability, smile, dance-ability..... just want to dance and go home. Thank God for pro-am.

Found here!

 

[Rabbit]

I did take a few musicality workshop (not many get offered). I tried to to privates for musicality. It didn’t do much for me. The musicality workshops did point me in a certain direction. For the past several years my main intention in dancing is about expressing the music. I think within what I can do I have a good technical foundation.

Most tango instructors think they have a high level of musicality but actually do not, and often those that do are not able to effectively explain how they hear or interpret the music. I would suggest approaching the musicians.

Which is usually followed by comment “most dancers don’t hear that”. It is challenging to find partners who understand what I am doing musically just as it is challenging to find partners that can own their musicality. When I say partners who don’t understand, it is like they enjoyed the ride but can’t explain what was enjoyable.

I also highly value followers' musicality. Either fortunately or unfortunately depending on which way you look at it, I don't think there is much correlation there with tango experience, apart from some Argentinians who were exposed to the music early on.

 

[LadyLeader]

Given amount of training you have in tango and your understanding of it, I am curious what you are doing to improve the musicality or musical emotions in your dancing further. What are the methods you employ. In what way does coach help you, that you won’t be able to do yourself. Is coach more for validation and evaluation?

I did take a few musicality workshop (not many get offered). I tried to to privates for musicality. It didn’t do much for me. The musicality workshops did point me in a certain direction. For the past several years my main intention in dancing is about expressing the music. I think within what I can do I have a good technical foundation. There is always a room for improvement as with everything else. Whether at milonga or at practica I consciously try to make the dance musicality first. It is a delight if the follower is also adding to it. Most followers I dance with generally don’t. I don’t have any regular partner. If I got to practica, half the time I end up helping partners with technique related issues. These are acquaintances I dance with regularly at milongas.

I do receive positive comments on musicality, which have increased in frequency in the past few years. Some of the best compliments I get is when dancing with the musicians when they are taking a break from a live set. They come between the songs in a Tanda and are more specific, e.g. about hearing things in music which they thought I captured as a dancer and they appreciate it as a musician. Which is usually followed by comment “most dancers don’t hear that”. It is challenging to find partners who understand what I am doing musically just as it is challenging to find partners that can own their musicality. When I say partners who don’t understand, it is like they enjoyed the ride but can’t explain what was enjoyable.

Could this be moved to an new/earlier musicality chain?

I think this will be *anyhow by me* written a lot about!

 

[itwillhappen]

You only have to look at the high table that is exclusively reserved for the visiting/local instructor community. It might be empty for first half of the milonga. Tango is only dance that liberally throws the label maestro or maestra at most instructors. Observe who they will dance with.

Tango is most hierarchy oriented social dance scene I know of among all other social dance scenes. I will certainly like to know the magical world where creating hierarchy in tango community is difficult

Such reserved tables are not common here. Even those who think they are important sit with their butts on the stairs when all the seats are taken. Maybe it needs a big studio with some staff of teachers, but that's not here.

 

[itwillhappen]

There is no vibe, they are not intimidated (see earlier where the leaders think they are God’s gift). They just don’t want to dance with her. They choose younger, pretty, single followers.

I know several skilled leaders that spend more than half their dance time with beginners. They think their motive is “encouragement” but their true motive is showing off. Intermediate and advanced dancers are more likely to leave (and eventually quit) if they’re not dancing. The leader’s time would be better spent dancing 3/4 tandas with other skilled dancers.

Ok, it can be. But what's new about it, what wasn't there when you started with tango?
After all, you can't spend other people's time like you can't spend their money - unless you married them.

 

[itwillhappen]

I feels that I have hit the brick wall at full speed. The feeling has been growing for a long time and when I now think about the future I can hardly imagine dancing at milongas. Tango itself is still alive and l like to train, watch videos, listen to music and will enjoy practicas with my training partners but ordinary milongas. No!

An "ordinary milonga" is a milonga with ordinary people? It often happens with tango teachers that they have turned their hobby into a profession and now need a new hobby. But as an amateur I have a choice and I choose the milongas.

This forum could be a good space to compare members' own leader/follower experiences, views and to discuss, ask about situations on the pista and around.

Yes, that is important and difficult to do on or near a milonga.

 

[opendoor]

Could this be moved to an new/earlier musicality chain?

What does it mean?

 

[Tangogal]

Ok, it can be. But what's new about it, what wasn't there when you started with tango?
After all, you can't spend other people's time like you can't spend their money - unless you married them.

I didn’t say otherwise. Everyone is entitled to dance with whomever they please and refuse to dance with anyone for any reason.

I was specifically answering the question of why particular leaders choose not to dance with a certain follower.

 

[Greybeard]

Could this be moved to an new/earlier musicality chain?

I think this will be *anyhow by me* written a lot about!

What does it mean?

I think she believes that a discussion about musicality in the middle of a thread about "why some women are not asked to dance" would be a bit confusing.

And Yeah, I agree and would also be interested.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Can’t parse what you said. You don’t really like to dance simple at milonga and enjoy it? I like to keep my dances simple with advance followers too. They are simple but intricate. I don’t do too much or any of ganchos, volcadas, and other such moves.

Not at all what I said. I always dance quite simply, just not necessarily with beginners. That's what practicas are for.