I use the same analogy when it comes to adornos and styling aspects in dancing. They are like salt and spices. A good dancer knows the right mix to use depending on what they are cooking in the dance.
Why some women are not asked to dance
- Thread starter Ampster
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The main teacher here is very good. After a year followers are generally milonga ready by any international standard. Leaders are ok. They’re past the beginners stange and at the enjoyable enough for a tanda stage. By three months the younger followers (those college students) are good enough to dance at a milonga with some competence. Our issues are with initial recruitment and with retention. Other dance communities are thriving while tango is in decline.
I was a fast learner myself. Doesn’t mean that those who learn more slowly are worse.
I think I wrote before that I had been out of tango for a few years. Injuries and illness meant I couldn’t dance a whole tanda. I continued in other dances where I could more easily choose my own pace. Add another two years for Covid and my first practilonga of 2022 was with fresh eyes.
The leaders had stagnated. There was only one new face. The followers were a mix of old and new faces though most looked to have been dancing for a year or more. The Ronda looked exactly like 2013 when I was dancing tango twice a week and attending workshop and festivals on a regular basis. (My assessment of my own dancing is that I need to work on stamina and practice more to get back into the flow)
Stagnated leaders will probably not attract back the skilled and semi-skilled followers that can dance in private classes and save for Argentina.
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opendoor
Forum Master
I don't think you can say it like that: dancers always had their own agendas. Even in the golden age, the average aficionado only danced to cuddle on the dance floor with certain girls. There is also NO obligation to change dance partners at milongas. If you say something like that, you join the chorus of bad dancers who are afraid of being passed over. I also only dance with teachers and the best followers around. Today that is called mindfulness and body awareness.
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I would classify the details of moving body parts as technique. The musicality part is deciding how to express that line or pattern. My experience as a dual role musician/dancer is that the process is identical up to the end: I anticipate that in the next few seconds I am going to express XXX, YYY; select a suitable direction, rhythm, speed, and other dynamic parameters; (here musicality ends and technique takes over) muscle memory translates that into the required movements
The dance can look "unmusical" due to a lack of technique because the body didn't arrive in the intended time and space, which I think is what you refer to as "blocks".
If they do have the technique, a follower with a high level of musicality will complete movements or add things like foot taps with exceptional timing, and understand how to hold pauses. When I encounter a relatively inexperienced dancer who does this, I often ask if they play a musical instrument or sing (not necessarily to performance level), and the answer is often yes.
I think everyone has an innate sense of rhythm from birth. The countless other aspects of musicality like separating lines, phrasing, expressing continuous lines, matching dynamic variation, anticipation, structure, choice of which movement to use, (I could go on for a while but you get the idea), require active engagement with music to develop, whether that's active listening, singing/tapping along, dancing with attention to a specific element, etc.
opendoor
Forum Master
That works in tango and other ballroom dances as there is only a limited number of musical phrases and means of expression. After 5 years in tango you have heard all possibilities. After another 5 years you will know who copied phrases and arrangements from one another.
I disagree. You can stand on one spot and without ever taking a step, you are able to map the music: weight change, torsion, breathing, hand position and so on.
Unfortunately it isn't. I keep getting to know beginners who are enthusiastic about dancing and who can't keep the beat when the music stops. Unfortunately, there are also those who have no inner metronome at all and are unable to synchronize with the beat they hear. Most deaf people I know, on the other hand, have a very good sense of rhythm.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Well, share the secret. Who is this magical teacher?
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I didn't claim it was an obligation or that you should dance with people you don't want to dance with. But with few exceptions (and there are always exceptions) most dancers, leaders or followers, dance with a rotating group of other people along with visitors. But you do get more experience and more exposure to different followers or leaders and the ability to experience aspects of the dance you hadn't experienced before. But if you want to only dance with your partner, that's certainly your prerogative.
It works in any dance and almost any music even if I hear it for the first time. There's a practically unlimited number of musical phrases and expression, but musical structure is predictable as it's based on repetition with variation.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
My girlfriend is in that situation. She brought this about herself through a series of perfectly good decisions (certification as a dance therapist and yoga teacher, trips to better tango teachers). That's why she has to take care of it herself if she doesn't want mediocre leaders to push her around. And so this year we travel to encuentros and she also to Buenos Aires.
For the community, the "stagnated" leaders are more important, they provide stability. I drive to my regular milonga as long as I can dance some good tandas there. And occasionally I attend local milongas when I'm getting plenty of praise for my dancing.
Who has the benefit of further classes and workshops, who will bear the costs? This is a matter that I only discuss with my girlfriend.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
I was just at a mainly Dutch/German encuentro and it was nice, my girlfriend was quite happy too.
No human selection process is perfect. but it is used very often, for example in companies, although afterwards the employees are more or less average. So it still seems to have advantages.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the existence of private events. It's more to do with what the group values - if everyone highly values a certain thing, then it's necessary to invite only people who agree with that in order for everyone to have a good time.
I also don't think it really has anything to do with skill level. People have a very strong tendency to conflate whatever they personally value with some sort of "objective" level (which in reality does not exist.) I am not immune to that myself.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
Neither do I. Their existence makes perfect sense: I don't invite everybody I know to every dinner or cocktail party I host, either – I invite people who know each other and have things in common. My only objection is to the dishonesty of saying, "You aren't sufficiently high level," while meaning, "You don't dance like we do." The former sounds judgmental; the latter, objective (I'm not invited to, say, football parties because I don't follow football, nor to my partner's workplace Teams meetings because I don't work there).
Precisely.
For sure!
I dislike what I call the "El Mundial" style that's prevalent around here: very tall "salon" tango with torsos barely or not touching, and consequently minimal axis- or weight-sharing, plus extensive step projection and large turns that orbit back along the line of dance, all led in two dimensions (the plane of the dance floor). I prefer more knee bend, a tighter hug, (non-illusionary) apilado, smaller steps, and turns that progress forward along the line of dance, all led with a major vertical component (i.e., strong suspensions and groundings).
When I see what I like, I have to consciously tell myself not to identify it as "higher level" than what I don't like. When I see what I don't like, I have to consciously tell myself not to identify it as "lower level" than what I do like. I know I'm picky and I try to be mindful of the fact that it's a preference, not a question of skill.
Still, were I inviting people to a private event, I'd invite people who dance more like I do. I'd just have to force myself not to couch things in terms of "level."
If anyone was rude enough to say that to me (it hasn't happened), I'm confident enough in my own abilities to just respond with "I didn't ask for the ignorant opinion of a bad dancer."
JournalInTime
Forum Master
I'm confident enough that I could say that. I'm also diplomatic enough that I wouldn't say that. My sum-total life experience in far more than tango – family, friends, streets, academia, employment, shopping, pastimes other than tango – is that returning fire ends badly more often than it doesn't. I'm definitely not a "turn the other cheek" person, but I'm surely a "a hard gaze and a pointed silence speaks volumes" one.