A Comfortable Embrace

[JohnEm]

Er...it's been a long day, but I still am not understanding the answer. Does "hand on lung" translate to the guy's right side or left?

Oh! I understand your query now.

The pics show the woman's left arm reaching right around the back
as far as the length of her arm allows but generally beyond his spine
to behind his left side. You being little perhaps might not reach that far.

More commonly, though, I dance in close embrace. So...arm wherever it fits, so long as it isn't pinning and I'm not hanging. Never had a problem or a complaint.

If you aren't pinning nor hanging I wouldn't even think of complaining either.

Oh, hell, with some leaders things get changed up even more. Have danced with both arms around his neck (his arms around my waist--high school hug-n-sway style), the reverse of that, both my hands on his chest, left arm around his back and right hand on his chest/side-ish. With another leader friend he tends to curl his left hand in to his chest. It's all good.

Yes and I've danced too with both arms wrapped around in a real hug!
Sometimes it can be appropriate and good to be informal.

 

[AndaBien]

...So come on guys, what accommodations do you make on a comfortable embrace? How do you change it (if at all) from a "traditional" hold to something else and when as opposed to expecting her to do all the changing?...

When I discovered AT I knew it was the dance I wanted to focus on from then on. After studying open style for a little over a year I discovered aplilado, and I knew it was the style I wanted to focus on from then on. I knew that within moments of feeling that embrace.

My lead comes from my chest and nowhere else. I don't want it to come from anywhere else. I adore how it feels to dance that way. So, if I can't find the connection in my chest, I loose interest. It means I don't dance with some very good dancers, some of whom are my friends, but that's just how I am.

I do try to accommodate my partners within that embrace. I know some partners prefer a lighter connection, but it's still in the same place. Some partners prefer a looser arm around their body, so I try to keep that in mind with them.

Philosophically, and this is probably a different thread, I do think it's the followers role to do more accommodating than the leader.

 

[Ampster]

(IMHO/E) Personally, where she holds her arms does not matter to me.

As the lead, it is up to me to adapt and make it work. As long as we dance in close embrace, and both of us are comfortable and able to move freely and make that magical connection only felt in tango, then the embrace works.

 

[JohnEm]

(IMHO/E) Personally, where she holds her arms does not matter to me.

As the lead, it is up to me to adapt and make it work. As long as we dance in close embrace, and both of us are comfortable and able to move freely and make that magical connection only felt in tango, then the embrace works.

Yes quite.

But the question is . . what if it isn't comfortable?

 

[Ampster]

Originally Posted by Ampster
(IMHO/E) Personally, where she holds her arms does not matter to me.

As the lead, it is up to me to adapt and make it work. As long as we dance in close embrace, and both of us are comfortable and able to move freely and make that magical connection only felt in tango, then the embrace works.

Yes quite.

But the question is . . what if it isn't comfortable?

My answer still stands... "As the lead, it is up to me to adapt and make it work." Besides, that's what tandas are for. When the tanda is over, it's over. Chalk it up to experience.

 

[JohnEm]

My answer still stands... "As the lead, it is up to me to adapt and make it work." Besides, that's what tandas are for. When the tanda is over, it's over. Chalk it up to experience.

Oh well, I guess AndaBien's "shrug" wins this argument then!
And as he talks philosophy, his adjustments seem to be much
more in keeping with my approach than yours.

But anyway, this is a question aimed at the ladies.
So in view of Ampster's attitude, is this what you'd prefer?

If the bloke's in pain, he says nothing and at the end of the tanda
it's good-bye, thank you and never repeat the experience.
Or would you rather be told so you may get to be asked again?

 

[bastet]

I appreciate Ampster and Anda chiming in, though after reading through the OP again, JohnEM is correct and he did ask for input from the ladies on adjustments so my apologies for butting in and hijacking. I think it got covered pretty well by the ladies.

I want to take Andas comment or maybe this whole concept back over to the other thread, since I think it applies there very well.

 

[AndaBien]

Ummm... ahhh...

I know these threads are prone to divergence, but I never saw them hybridize before.

I'm reminded of that old Far Side cartoon of a hunted bear standing behind a tree, saying to himself, "Think! I've got to think. Way is that man shooting at me?"

I'm not sure which conversation I'm having here, but in no way did I intended to imply that being discourteous was ever appropriate.

 

[JohnEm]

I missed this response to Alberto's The lung hold with the banana bunch post
on his Gotta Tango blog.


I recently had an experience to be embraced by an otherwise nice dancer
with that “lung hold.” When I asked her gently about it, she said she adopted
that embrace lately after attending some workshops in order to improve connection.

That really baffled me since I never thought we had not had a good connection
(during the dance she thankfully did adjust her arm position to what we used to have –
wonderful, great). Contrary to her expectation, I lost connection with her due to
“the lung hold with banana grip” embrace and felt continuous need to fight the pressure
of her left arm on my upper arm, it was truly uncomfortable for me.

Additionally, because of it, my right lower arm lost connection with her back —
perhaps that is why many leaders then lower their right arm toward the waist,
I might do the same if I am significantly taller than my partner.
My most frequent dance partner will occasionally press my back when she feels
loss of connection which is a signal to me that I need to change something
to help with it. After I accommodate, she immediately returns to the wonderfully
intimate and gentle embrace we both enjoy tremendously. She is a European,
not adverse to intimate embraces.

…dubravko

It's obviously easier to say something when you have an existing dance partnership,
even if only occasionally. However it's an interesting observation and it sort of
confirms my own experiences.

 

[Zoopsia59]

When I asked her gently about it, she said she adopted
that embrace lately after attending some workshops in order to improve connection.

There does seem to be a trend towards making connection in the arm contact. I don't understand it, and I'm not particularly fond of it. I don't know if its the influence of a few teachers or what (and I don't want to speculate)

To answer your original question (I think... uh... what thread am I on?)

If my embrace is causing the guy pain or physical discomfort, I would want him to speak up. I do think it's possible to do this without making the partner feel like a worm however.

Most of the time though I have had the guy "correct" me when I am not using the embrace that he has decided is "correct" and it has little to do with any physical pain. In fact, I have been lately getting corrected to put MORE pressure down on the guy's arm with my own, due to this trend of connecting there in CE rather than in the torso. Usually the guys giving me this correction are making NO contact with me with their body. Not in the chest for flat-on, not in the side for V. Zip. (but not open either)

I have had only two leaders ask me to do something different because of physical discomfort. Unfortunately for my learning process, they each asked me to do what the other asked me NOT to do.

Uh...

So when I dance with each of them, I use my left arm in the way that they prefer. Both of them are good "milonguero" style leaders and make a solid connection in their body, so really, my left arm is moot. Its just a matter of NOT placing it where it causes them problems, as opposed to placing it where it would assist in their connection.

 

[bastet]

Ummm... ahhh...

I know these threads are prone to divergence, but I never saw them hybridize before.

I'm reminded of that old Far Side cartoon of a hunted bear standing behind a tree, saying to himself, "Think! I've got to think. Way is that man shooting at me?"

I'm not sure which conversation I'm having here, but in no way did I intended to imply that being discourteous was ever appropriate.

it wasn't directed at you Anda, but it was a general concept and comment that gave me a sudden insight to the other thread.

 

[JohnEm]

There does seem to be a trend towards making connection in the arm contact. I don't understand it, and I'm not particularly fond of it. I don't know if its the influence of a few teachers or what (and I don't want to speculate)

If my embrace is causing the guy pain or physical discomfort, I would want him to speak up. I do think it's possible to do this without making the partner feel like a worm however.

Agreed entirely.

I have had two leaders ask me to do something different because of physical discomfort. Unfortunately for my learning process, they each asked me to do what the other asked me NOT to do.

Very odd. No wonder you're confused.
But then there seem to be so many different things being taught.
I could tell you a tale of a lady's strong right arm - clearly that's
being taught too but it's like a ballroom frame hold.

Like you I prefer the chest connection and indicating intent with it.
It's not the easiest thing to master but nothing else compares when
it works and the lady is equally responsive.

The man conveys intent, the lady moves and the man follows is an interesting
if not entirely accurate way of putting it.

Thanks for your constructive response. I promise to try and never make
you feel like a worm, it's not a good outcome.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Very odd. No wonder you're confused.
But then there seem to be so many different things being taught.

Actually, in the long run, it was quite enlightening... because it helped me see the folly of the whole "right and wrong" concept. Its all very personal and you have to be open to the subtle signals from the other person to figure out whether what you are doing is right for THEM regardless of whether it is "right" according to some teacher you had. That's why I didn't bother to elaborate on what each of them wanted or didn't want. It's irrelevant. The only relevant thing is that they wanted totally different things and the only way I could please them both is by doing different things and ignoring what I might have been "taught" to do.

 

[AndaBien]

...The man conveys intent, the lady moves and the man follows is an interesting if not entirely accurate way of putting it...

This is precisely the way I try to dance.

 

[dchester]

Most of the time though I have had the guy "correct" me when I am not using the embrace that he has decided is "correct" and it has little to do with any physical pain. In fact, I have been lately getting corrected to put MORE pressure down on the guy's arm with my own, due to this trend of connecting there in CE rather than in the torso. Usually the guys giving me this correction are making NO contact with me with their body. Not in the chest for flat-on, not in the side for V. Zip. (but not open either)

I have had only two leaders ask me to do something different because of physical discomfort. Unfortunately for my learning process, they each asked me to do what the other asked me NOT to do.

This is why I sometimes say, "There are a lot of preferences being masqueraded as rules".