A different way to teach tango

[NZ_Guy]

But an ocho is an ocho is an ocho.

I don't know.. leading Michelle Erdemsel into an ocho was quite different to leading most others I've danced with. Also my ochos vary at least slightly to the music*.. the main variables being more or less disassociation, more or less pivot, and how quickly or not I lead her to collect.

*including the melodic lines.

But, whatever works...

 

[tangomaniac]

I don't know.. leading Michelle Erdemsel into an ocho was quite different to leading most others I've danced with. Also my ochos vary at least slightly to the music*.. the main variables being more or less disassociation, more or less pivot, and how quickly or not I lead her to collect.

*including the melodic lines.

But, whatever works...

The technique for leading an ocho remains constant. Get the woman onto one foot, pivot and step. It will feel different for every woman you lead.

 

[Subliminal]

The technique for leading an ocho remains constant. Get the woman onto one foot, pivot and step. It will feel different for every woman you lead.

Disagree. There are at least two ways to lead an echo, and possibly many variations.

 

[opendoor]

an ocho is an ocho is an ocho...

I don't know..

I thought I would not contribute to this thread any more. But this actually is an interesting question. So temporalily I play the devil´s advocate now: The ocho already is a sequence!

 

[UKDancer]

In my tango vocab., steps with pivots only become ochos when we dance them in pairs (making the shape of an eight on the floor), so yes, a sequence. But 'an ocho is an ocho is an ocho' implies some sort of formulaic way of executing such an element, and with such an approach, my expectation would be that it would be fixed as regards timing, quality of step and feel. 'It's just an ocho (shrug)'. That sort of ocho might be a sequence, but it isn't tango.

 

[tangomaniac]

Disagree. There are at least two ways to lead an ocho, and possibly many variations.

Please write the two ways so I can see how you can lead an ocho without an pivot.

 

[tangomaniac]

I thought I would not contribute to this thread any more. But this actually is an interesting question. So temporalily I play the devil´s advocate now: The ocho already is a sequence!

That is correct. I didn't write an ocho is a step. I wrote put the woman on one foot, pivot, and then lead her to step with the other foot. The ocho is a change in direction.

 

[tangomaniac]

In my tango vocab., steps with pivots only become ochos when we dance them in pairs (making the shape of an eight on the floor), so yes, a sequence. But 'an ocho is an ocho is an ocho' implies some sort of formulaic way of executing such an element, and with such an approach, my expectation would be that it would be fixed as regards timing, quality of step and feel. 'It's just an ocho (shrug)'. That sort of ocho might be a sequence, but it isn't tango.

I wrote "an ocho is an ocho is an ocho" to indicate the technique (and only the technique) is constant. I didn't write anything about degree of pivot or timing of the step.

 

[dchester]

Disagree. There are at least two ways to lead an echo, and possibly many variations.

Agreed, there are pivoting and non-pivoting (AKA milonguero) ochos. Then of course, some of both techniques could be used as well.

 

[bordertangoman]

Agreed, there are pivoting and non-pivoting (AKA milonguero) ochos. Then of course, some of both techniques could be used as well.

exactly, and of course the forward ocho from the man's right ends up in a milonguero cross

 

[jantango]

exactly, and of course the forward ocho from the man's right ends up in a milonguero cross

Tell that to the milongueros viejos.

 

[Lui]

I think you are all correct in this regard. As soon as somebody states an absolute rule, immediately there is a bunch of guys looking for the one exception proving him wrong. BTW, I’m guilty off this typical male fault as well. For me it’s a good thing as it keeps tango and its social dynamics alive.

Once they mastered the “Rotate her, translate her, repeat”-technique of a “normal” ocho I would consider beginners already on a good track to discover their personal tango. For me it’s good when beginners get a lot of mileage under their belt, so they have some real life experience to base their personal system of tango believes upon. Later it may dawn on them, that a molinete is just a series of special ochos.

Now to act out my male faults :
While historic maybe even the true ocho, from a modern point of view the Milonguero ocho is closer related to an enganche to my taste. Some woman use it as an embellishment, to give a performance a more vintage look and the minute lead of really tiny steps can easily be overridden. Preparing a systematic schema for teaching I would put the Milonguero ocho more in chapter exotic alternatives.

@bordertangoman

That’s a wonderful philosophical example. Is it really a special ocho resulting in a cross, or is it an ocho-like get-ready as a prelude for a special cross?

 

[tangomaniac]

@bordertangoman

That’s a wonderful philosophical example. Is it really a special ocho resulting in a cross, or is it an ocho-like get-ready as a prelude for a special cross?

What he wrote sounds like ocho cortado.

 

[Lui]

Luckily most Milongueros don’t know or care what we labeled Milonguero. Once, they do I hope they see it as a sign of respect. On the other hand having some terms makes it a lot easier to discuss. Using a forward ocho to get a cross is something that feels best when dancing close and small, thus the label Milonguero makes sense to me.

 

[Lui]

tangomanic,

you are right, it could have been an ocho cortado, but I picture more a sidestepping technique where you rather omit a step than doing double time to change into cross system. Maybe I’ve too much fantasy. In the end only a video will tell.

I often use ocho cortados where there is not much left of the ocho. Some you may see in my “advertising” for our past summer program.