Adjusting the embrace

[LoveTango]

This threads remind me of something:

As a follower, I really don't like the leader moving his right hand up and down my back during the dance. Once I danced with a leader whose right hand position was too low, almost below my waist. I was not comfortable with that hand position, so I grabbed his hand and placed it higher. That seems to have settled the problem.

However, some other leaders, they don't keep R hand still at same height. It goes up and down, which is uncomfortable to me. I don't know what to do. Any advice? Thanks.

 

[newbie]

More specifically, if I dance with a woman who binds my R arm to my side with her L arm, would it be okay for me to move her arm up to the top of my shoulder

Long ago I was in BsAs taking privates with a female teacher, this topic came in the conversation as some of my partners were doing that and I disliked it but did not want to be rude, the teacher said to just move away my arm and re-start the abrazo. So this is how I do now. Also when the lady puts her left arm on my shoulder blade.

 

[Peaches]

Ya know, my opinion on this topic has changed since the thread started.

My first thought was that of course it is OK to say something about the embrace if you don't like it so much. And now...not so much.

With the caveat that if something is causing you actual physical pain then it's always OK to speak up and say something (nicely), other than that I think you should just keep your mouth shut. If you can shift yourself a bit to encourage your partner to shift their embrace, that's one thing (switch to an open embrace, move an arm a bit, etc). But other than that, suck it up. Seriously.

We all have our preferences. What one guy asks for specifically, another will hate. What one hates, another loves. What one considers wrong, another things is The Way It Is Done. And ya know what? A girl can drive herself crazy trying to make everyone happy. Of course the embrace is a negotiation, and both partners can do what is in their power to make it pleasant for themselves and others. So when you first start, you setttle into each other and get comfortable as best you can. And after that, just shut up and go with it. So your preference is Not X, Y and/or Z. Yeah, well, what makes your preference take preference over anyone else's preference.

 

[bordertangoman]

Ya know, my opinion on this topic has changed since the thread started.

My first thought was that of course it is OK to say something about the embrace if you don't like it so much. And now...not so much.

With the caveat that if something is causing you actual physical pain then it's always OK to speak up and say something (nicely), other than that I think you should just keep your mouth shut. If you can shift yourself a bit to encourage your partner to shift their embrace, that's one thing (switch to an open embrace, move an arm a bit, etc). But other than that, suck it up. Seriously.

We all have our preferences. What one guy asks for specifically, another will hate. What one hates, another loves. What one considers wrong, another things is The Way It Is Done. And ya know what? A girl can drive herself crazy trying to make everyone happy. Of course the embrace is a negotiation, and both partners can do what is in their power to make it pleasant for themselves and others. So when you first start, you setttle into each other and get comfortable as best you can. And after that, just shut up and go with it. So your preference is Not X, Y and/or Z. Yeah, well, what makes your preference take preference over anyone else's preference.

quite so, as long as you're not hanging onto the man and pulling him off balance.
I wonder why the embrace has an open and closed side and why is it that way round?

 

[ant]

My first thought was that of course it is OK to say something about the embrace if you don't like it so much. And now...not so much.

I agree with you.

This pinning of the leaders right arm is a bit uncomfortable but it is no big deal. To ask your follower to change and the potentual stress that may cause her would be a far bigger priority for me.

 

[Steve Pastor]

This pinning of the leaders right arm is a bit uncomfortable but it is no big deal.

Perhaps for some of you. For me with wide shoulders and a narrow middle it feels as though my arm is being pulled out of the socket. And, I can tell you that some women will use that hanging on to that right arm as their main connection point with a absence of "forward presence".

If it doesn't bother you then it's no big deal. If it does bother you...
And really, again, "some women", hold that arm so tightly that it would be darn near impossible to just slip your arm out and start again.

It doen't happen that often, but when it does...

 

[Peaches]

Again...appropriate caveats for painful situations. Pain is one thing; preference is another.

 

[ant]

Perhaps for some of you. For me with wide shoulders and a narrow middle it feels as though my arm is being pulled out of the socket. And, I can tell you that some women will use that hanging on to that right arm as their main connection point with a absence of "forward presence".

I have not experienced the problem you are describing. I read it as a different problem to that described in the OP.

More specifically, if I dance with a woman who binds my R arm to my side with her L arm, would it be okay for me to move her arm up to the top of my shoulder

I would agree that if the problem you are describing causes you pain then this is a different set of circumstances and would require a different solution.

I would say where there is minor discomfort you should weigh up the stress it causes to your follower with the small amount of relief asking her to adjust may bring (it could still be a problem) and the effect this may have on the overall dance. The only question mark I would have is if during or after the dance she asks for feedback about the dance.

This differs to a situation where there is actual pain and/or maybe potentual for injury in which case I feel the problem should be addressed a quickly as possible in the politest way possible.

The question that is in mind is if the follower(s) that you are experiencing this type of pain with are also probablly doing it with other leaders so either the problem would almost certainly have been adddressed already or she is a reletively new dancer. If she is a new dancer she would probablly welcome good feed back.

 

[AndaBien]

...I would agree that if the problem you are describing causes you pain then this is a different set of circumstances and would require a different solution.

I completely agree that no one should endure pain or even discomfort from their partner, for even a moment. In that situation the suffering party should make a polite comment and ask for some alteration in the embrace.

I do think that some guys, particularly beginners, might cause some pain without knowing it and be appreciative if someone would let them know about it.

 

[dchester]

I completely agree that no one should endure pain or even discomfort from their partner, for even a moment. In that situation the suffering party should make a polite comment and ask for some alteration in the embrace.

I do think that some guys, particularly beginners, might cause some pain without knowing it and be appreciative if someone would let them know about it.

Yes, I remember my beginning period very well. Figuring out that followers did not like being in pain (and that I could be causing it), allowed me to progress from absolutely sucks, to merely bad. It only took me a few months to learn this.

 

[AndaBien]

Yes, I remember my beginning period very well. Figuring out that followers did not like being in pain (and that I could be causing it), allowed me to progress from absolutely sucks, to merely bad. It only took me a few months to learn this.

Even now, if another leader is distracting me from my own dance and I'm getting irritated about it, I may begin subconsciously squeezing my L hand or my partner too tightly. If she is uncomfortable, she should indicate so. I would appreciate that.

 

[Madahlia]

Once I danced with a leader whose right hand position was too low, almost below my waist. I was not comfortable with that hand position, so I grabbed his hand and placed it higher. That seems to have settled the problem.

I have trouble with this as well. It forces my pelvis to tilt awkwardly and causes pain after a while. Some people find it a bit creepy as well. I only know one man who does this. Eventually I plucked up courage to request a modification but was told that his (BsAs) teacher had told him he must dance with his hand in that position.

To ask your follower to change and the potentual stress that may cause her would be a far bigger priority for me.

Most reasonable-minded followers would be happy to negotiate over the finer details to accommodate you, I'm sure. In fact, that negotiation is part of the pleasure of establishing a good connection as it fosters trust and relaxation.

If there's a big disparity between partners it would be a lot harder, I agree.

 

[newbie]

Once I danced with a leader whose right hand position was too low, almost below my waist. ... I grabbed his hand and placed it higher.

I've seen that in a choreography by Carlos Coppello.

 

[opendoor]

of frozen hands, mouth corners, eye blink, and deep breath

..other leaders, they don't keep R hand still at same height. It goes up and down, which is uncomfortable to me. I don't know what to do. Any advice? Thanks.

Hi LoveTango, ...the one sliding up and down has been me. I´m sliding all the time, and I will tell you why! The followers I dance with really are experienced, outspoken and frank, but the mentioned reaction never occured. So there may be other reasons? Do you find it could be a dirty like pass eventually? I do not need to dance tango to have the opportunity to touch women, but for some men the situation might be that way.

When I dance (and I prefer lyrical pieces as from Donato, Rodriguez, Calo, some Fresedo, and Malerba) I am going to interpret especially the melody. So when walking and projecting I put my hand round the woman´s right shoulder blade (so called abrazo profundo). When doing rebotes, I put it at her waist, and there always are passages I put it lower, as well. Embrace is a living thing, as your steps, your head, your mouth corners, your eyes, and your breathing. Should start a thread on interpreting dramatically by breathing...

And (vice versa) I really find it annoying and nasty if a follower keeps her left hand and arm always at the some position. I simply expect that the woman emphasizes cadences, or sequences by fondling my neck tenderly, or by pressing her palm with outstreched fingers on my spine right between the blades when the melody becomes really dramatic, and of course that the follower slides down onto my upper arm in colgadas or giros.

And please take a look at the attached photo: I chose that one because you can read in my face how the melody actually went. A stoic look was as annoying as could be. http://www.dance-forums.com/album/photos/photo-3524.html

 

[bordertangoman]

Hi LoveTango, ...the one sliding up and down has been me. I´m sliding all the time, and I will tell you why! The followers I dance with really are experienced, outspoken and frank, but the mentioned reaction never occured. So there may be other reasons? Do you find it could be a dirty like pass eventually? I do not need to dance tango to have the opportunity to touch women, but for some men the situation might be that way.

When I dance (and I prefer lyrical pieces as from Donato, Rodriguez, Calo, some Fresedo, and Malerba) I am going to interpret especially the melody. So when walking and projecting I put my hand round the woman´s right shoulder blade (so called abrazo profundo). When doing rebotes, I put it at her waist, and there always are passages I put it lower, as well. Embrace is a living thing, as your steps, your head, your mouth corners, your eyes, and your breathing. Should start a thread on interpreting dramatically by breathing...

And (vice versa) I really find it annoying and nasty if a follower keeps her left hand and arm always at the some position. I simply expect that the woman emphasizes cadences, or sequences by fondling my neck tenderly, or by pressing her palm with outstreched fingers on my spine right between the blades when the melody becomes really dramatic, and of course that the follower slides down onto my upper arm in colgadas or giros.

And please take a look at the attached photo: I chose that one because you can read in my face how the melody actually went. A stoic look was as annoying as could be. http://www.dance-forums.com/album/photos/photo-3524.html

will all that attention to what you want from her close side arm and you cant even get the left hand right

a) not given her space for her fingers to wrap over yours
b) not enclosing your fingers around her little finger; (NB the hear meridian goes along the little finger and this is why it is essential to hold that finger with tenderness.)