At the end of the pandemic, maybe a new start?

[ArbeeNYC]

I have very little idea of what the ladies talk about to each other when not dancing.

Men, obviously.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Maybe you're too slow because you don't invite during the Cortina?

Now, who would invite during a cortina other than a beginner? Or someone who doesn't care what they'll be dancing to?

 

[Brummbaer]

Perhaps as a solution in larger events with non-negligible numbers of women leaders/dual-roles, mandating role-based seating areas could reduce confusion, but this is of course more or less feasible depending on the location. One side for leaders, another side for followers, and a smaller area for couples who wish only to dance among themselves.

That last paragraph is slightly alarming, though - were they blacklisted or something?

That is one AT 'tradition', which I heard from someone connected with El Corte. I have known milongas where they've tried to implement that 'tradition' in the UK, and have seen once in Germany. Generally it's more relaxed - anyone can ask anyone else using any method simply because attendees are known to each other, although cabeceo may be used if it can work in the circumstances. It really depends on the customs and culture of that locale, also particularly the layout around the floor, and age of attendees. Couples tended to be older and had their social group of friends and acquaintances with whom they danced. Younger people were single and looking to meet someone. It would not be viewed favourably for a single to request a dance from someone in a couple (also see here). Maybe it will come around again.

The rule was: If you want to dance with others, don't enter as a couple, which seems more appropriate to this style of event.

 

[pianistamediano]

It would not be viewed favourably for a single to request a dance from someone in a couple (also see here).

Oh dear - well, actions have consequences!

 

[Brummbaer]

Now, who would invite during a cortina other than a beginner? Or someone who doesn't care what they'll be dancing to?

Depends whether or not the next tanda structure is known, for example projected. There are, of course, those non-beginners who seem to have the goal of dancing every tanda with a different follower, never leaving the floor except for a comfort break. Usually identified by poor floorcraft in the middle.

 

[Brummbaer]

Much of the same applies in terms of behavior. There are plenty of "peacocks" in tango and plenty of attractive young women in tight dresses. Simply depends where you are (city, milonga, etc.). Some skew older, some skew younger. As for the STEM connection, not sure, maybe there's something a bit more cerebral about AT. It also presents a different set of challenges I would think.

Also seems related to, let's say 'gentrification', of AT moving from the streets to the dancefloor. If you didn't grow up with it, then you need someone to teach you.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Just in case anyone else was confused as I was about ValenTango's What Level Tango Dancer am I? reference... It's not about the festival organizers restricting who takes what classes, etc. It's meant to be a self assessment.
Meanwhile, if I learn to lead ganchos (well? (not so much in close embrace)) I will be READY to start advanced classes.
Oh, and a majority of respondents favor a test to qualify for intermediate and advanced classes.

 

[itwillhappen]

Now, who would invite during a cortina other than a beginner? Or someone who doesn't care what they'll be dancing to?

That's not a question here, the majority obviously doesn't care what they'll be dancing to. And I'm talking about a well-attended milonga with traditional music.
Dancer want to dance with that partner and the DJ has to make sure the music is danceable. If not, then they dance too, but then they are dissatisfied and exhausted earlier.

 

[LadyLeader]

Perhaps as a solution in larger events with non-negligible numbers of women leaders/dual-roles, mandating role-based seating areas could reduce confusion, but this is of course more or less feasible depending on the location. One side for leaders, another side for followers, and a smaller area for couples who wish only to dance among themselves.

That last paragraph is slightly alarming, though - were they blacklisted or something?

Yes that was the structure for the most strickt enquentros, but appreciated only by few.

No they were not blacklisted but told to stick to the role in their application.

 

[Brummbaer]

Yes that was the structure for the most strickt enquentros, but appreciated only by few.

I think that highlights the different groups who dance social AT. There's the younger(?), primarily singles, group who have the aim of just dancing - as many tandas with as many people as possible (presumably the 'marathon' concept). There's a group with couples, probably older but not necessarily elderly, who also see it as a social time - to meet up with friends and also to dance, but not restricting themselves to 'couples', which sort of breaks that old Argentine tradition. Cultural changes also produce more older singles.

I can understand why attempting to apply that old tradition too strictly isn't always appreciated at a modern European tango enquentro.

 

[opendoor]

Yes that was the structure for the most strickt enquentros, but appreciated only by few.

All of my ex-girlfriends and ex-dance partners jet off to encuentros or marathons at least three times a year.
They don't care about the music, they don't care about the setting and the rules. They dance out of frustration because they can't let off steam where they live (and we have a milonga or two almost every day somewhere). They just want to dance non-stop and to the point of delir.

 

[itwillhappen]

It's not about the festival organizers restricting who takes what classes, etc.

Of course not - organizers also tend to get quite flexible if the need more participants for commercial reasons.

 

[itwillhappen]

All of my ex-girlfriends and ex-dance partners jet off to encuentros or marathons at least three times a year.
They don't care about the music, they don't care about the setting and the rules. They dance out of frustration because they can't let off steam where they live (and we have a milonga or two almost every day somewhere). They just want to dance non-stop and to the point of delir.

A lot is possible. The encuentros, especially with separated rows of seats, bring me a lot of serenity for regional milongas. In other words: I don't care that much if my ego perceives a premium clique - either a lady now wants to dance with me or not, no matter what has been in the past, no clue what will be in the future.

 

[Brummbaer]

Oh, and a majority of respondents favor a test to qualify for intermediate and advanced classes.

This is a problem area. There are no formal levels for social AT. One can recognise a beginner, a novice, [improver?], advanced, maestro. And somewhere in-between novice and advanced the 'intermediate'. But the transitions between them are blurred. I certainly wouldn't want, say, ballroom level tests.

In your comparison with ganchos, how many types do I need to know and how well do I lead them? And if the follower doesn't want a gancho?

One of our classes made a severe distinction between beginners and their next phase 'intermediate' - about 2 years practicing 'walks' and basics before moving on. Yes, there's merit in that, but it doesn't fit our culture: we went to learn to dance; well-enough and quickly. Fortunately that teacher moved on (and apparently out of AT). It wasn't a good model without some means of adding to the beginners' skills to make that jump. A traditional practica would have helped. There's still a similar issue now with beginners going to the flashier teachers who do manage to teach that transition.

Also, if I wanted to learn, say, sacadas or ganchos, I'd want to take a class in them. If I could do them, I wouldn't need the class. I'd probably expect that participants could do other steps (say giro, ochos, ocho cortado, cross) beforehand. It's about the teaching skills of making that class accessible to mixed level participants.

I don't see 'tests' as a solution in a class environment, but would hope for some degree of self-assessment for a workshop, whilst recognising that the workshop's purpose is to teach a skill.

 

[itwillhappen]

It does lend credence to the idea that tango is very distinct from other dances, such as salsa, bachata sensual, kizomba, etc.. Or maybe it's that the women in tango are less intimidating. Perhaps for a lot of STEM guys, going up to a hot girl in a tight dress at a salsa congress, with the loud and fast-paced music, and having to 'peacock' like the other men, is far more anxiety-inducing than doing the same at a milonga. Or is it also that tango is inherently more focused inwards, more introverted than the other more extroverted dances? So many factors.

I think the main difference is that with tango you have time to think if you need time. By that I don't mean that you look at your feet and think desperately about the next steps, of course.
But if I notice that something is wrong, I can lead a pause and collect, maybe even whisper something with my partner or open the embrace and look in her eyes.

And the many, many rules that you can stick to make it possible to participate even with personality structures up to the autistic spectrum.