You could argue the skill level on both extremes would invite during a cortina, since maybe super advanced dancers can enjoy and dance to all music very well.
At the end of the pandemic, maybe a new start?
- Thread starter itwillhappen
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It doesn't have to be super advanced. I do generally expect that my partners will happy be dancing to almost everything and they expect the same from me, though, so we might just invite each other if we spot each other during a cortina. The most common point where people either love the music or are not confident with it is with milonga.
People invite during cortinas? What is the world coming to!
I seen some, very few do it. At home milongas as well as many milongas I visited. Some offenders are rejected and told it is a cortina. I seen followers do that type of rejection. Between the friends you might decide to dance the next tanda if both approve the music. That is fairly common. In addition to equivalent of picking your nose in public, there are other good reasons to not ask during a cortina. There is nothing inherently wrong in picking your nose in front of others and may be there are parts of the world where it is approved
My impression dancing in local milongas in over two dozen cities across the world is that Tango etiquettes are by and large fairly uniform. So is the behavior on and off the dance floor. For example other than Vals and Milonga, I have not witness a regular 3 song tanda. Except a few times at a praticalonga in hometown. Personally I would prefer 3 songs regular tanda. Many times by the fourth song I want to get rid of the partner
I haven’t danced much in very small towns. When I hear things that deviate from my experience across countries and continents I tend to become skeptical. To me based on my experience the Tango norms are consistent across the world.
There are times I can’t invite someone I like to dance with because the opportunity didn’t present when the right tanda came along. I might let them know after the milonga ends. A better the follower is the more likely I am selective in when I ask her. There are other reasons, they were busy talking to someone, or they had positioned themselves that would require me to walk half way across the room, or there were obstacles in the path of cabaceo. That in addition to them being already asked by someone else. I do notice some followers take passive aggressive approach and try avoiding the next time at milonga. That resets once I ask them. That is why I feel if a woman wants to dance with you she should drop a hint or let it be known artfully. Some women are very good at that part. Of course the best is to outright ask the man. Very few do that in my experience.
Super advance dancer can dance to all music. It doesn’t mean they enjoy it. There is no such correlation.
I am not super advance. I can dance to all kinds of music and make it fun/enjoyable for my partner. Irrespective of her skill level. It doesn’t mean I enjoyed the music. Skill to dance well to any type of music has nothing to do with liking or disliking a particular piece.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Possibly, but that process took place in the mid-20th century, even earlier. We're long past that moment.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Experienced dancers, who know the music well, tend to be more selective about what they will dance to. At least, that's been my experience.
TTanguero
Forum Master
With a slight rephrasing ("the more I enjoy dancing with a follower, the more selective I am in when I cabeceo her"), this is me. There are some followers who deserve the very best music, and anything else is a waste.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Most leaders in the local milongas around here will dance to all but the worst music and monopolise the followers I enjoy dancing with - why, I ask, why?!
(Well, for the multitude of reasons already stated in this forum, I guess.)
And I whole-heartedly agree with TTanguero and ArbeeNYC; I reserve the best tandas for the followers that I know will do full justice to the music and to ourselves on the pista; to do otherwise would be dissonant. Naturally, we can dance and enjoy other tandas together, and I do sometimes do that when they invite me verbally, but it is the best feeling in the world when the two of us want to dance an amazing tanda.
(Well, for the multitude of reasons already stated in this forum, I guess.)
And I whole-heartedly agree with TTanguero and ArbeeNYC; I reserve the best tandas for the followers that I know will do full justice to the music and to ourselves on the pista; to do otherwise would be dissonant. Naturally, we can dance and enjoy other tandas together, and I do sometimes do that when they invite me verbally, but it is the best feeling in the world when the two of us want to dance an amazing tanda.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
Someone who has a full dance card.
If I stay for, say, 21 tandas – consisting of, for the sake of argument, 14 tango tandas, 4 vals tandas, and 3 milonga tandas – then by the time my coat is off, my shoes are on, and I've walked to a table, the 4 vals and 3 milonga tandas are already promised in passing to people who like vals and milonga. It's more important to them that they get to dance any valses or any milongas than it is that they get to dance to some specific orquesta. Just about all of them also want a tango tanda at some point a bit later, too (they ask after the promised vals or milonga tanda), so that's 14 out of 21 tandas spoken for by 7 followers, leaving 7 tandas.
I generally hide out to change shirts and get water for at least 2 tandas, usually right after milonga tandas. That leave 5 tandas to cover everybody else. Most evenings, if I dance with only 12 people like this, I leave 2-3 friends prodding me to "reserve" tandas at the next event . . . meaning that I go into that event with stuff on my card when I arrive at the door. I left that out above to simplify the example.
Of course I try to wait for the favorite music of specific partners when I can, but often I have someone right in front of me waiting to be invited, and it simplifies things greatly to invite them while we can find each other, because milongas here are crowded and dim, and people are hard to find.
This isn't about "obligation." I like dancing with these people! However, each tanda not danced at all is a disappointment for someone . . . a greater disappointment than dancing to, say, Lomuto when they'd rather D'Arienzo. The followers I know find it more fun to face the challenge of an orquesta to which they don't often dance than to sit around not dancing at all.
I wouldn't consider this a "beginner" problem or a "not caring" problem, but a "having 10 years of tango friends in the same city, where there are far more followers than leaders" problem. Fortunately, said city has mostly competent DJs who don't play terrible tandas – and a significant portion of them display the upcoming tanda on a screen so that dancers can plan ahead during the previous tanda, never mind during the cortina. One also verbally announces. And quite a few have trademark cortinas that always precede specific orquestas, so if you've been here for a while, you know things like, "Ah, Psycho Killer by the Talking Heads. We're in for some D'Arienzo."
Counterpoint: if the DJ is doing their job well, then most people should be happy to dance most of the tandas and there shouldn't be any "worst" music played (which I interpret to mean music that most of the room thinks is bad.)
Of course I know who especially wants to dance milonga / vals / Pugliese / contemporary with me and that we will look for each other when the appropriate music comes on if free, who's good with a slower approach to the music and who prefers drama, etc.
But I've also had a bunch of great tandas after an invitation during a cortina, to music that I consider mediocre generic tango that I might not have bothered dancing to otherwise. It didn't improve my overall opinion of that music, but it just happened to work well with a specific partner on a specific occasion.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I'd like to think that's why the floor is generally full for every tanda whenever I'm DJ-ing!
Most of the DJs here tend to be a bit hit-and-miss, with great tandas now and then, but people still dance on anyway. There's one who plays almost nothing but modern orquestas in 3-song tandas, another with a penchant for dramatic and/or punchy (think D'Arienzo at his hardest), and another who tries more obscure/lesser known tangos than usual, which unfortunately tend to be a bit disappointing.
It's definitely a personal, subjective thing - if I don't feel the music enough, then even though I can still dance it just fine (and hopefully give my follower an enjoyable time), I would much rather sit, close my eyes and listen (or socialise with others), even if we were the most perfect match ever in the history of partner dancing, or if it was a follower I've wanted to dance with for the longest time (Although it would be different if she invited me herself!). So it goes with I, who loves the music above all else.
I’ve heard this from experienced dancers too, but I also hear from even more experienced dancers (usually teachers) that they can dance to all types of orchestras and make it enjoyable.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Even such devaluations, especially from tangueros passing through, will in no way impress the regular guests of a weekly milonga. They just keep doing what works for them.In addition to equivalent of picking your nose in public, there are other good reasons to not ask during a cortina. There is nothing inherently wrong in picking your nose in front of others and may be there are parts of the world where it is approved
There isn't even a justification based on "traditions", it's purely lived practice.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Honestly - such behavior of the ladies does not come naturally, you have to take care of it yourself. For me and with me that would be nothing.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
Followers are not doing this kind of calculations comparing numbers of tandas & followers at the milonga. They just feel neglected, not worth anything if not invited.
The situation was roughly this - there was 16 tandas at the milonga and about 18 followers. It was a wonderful night and I danced 14 tandas in a row so I missed a few followers. Some were upset about it.
Earlier I have solved these situations by lowering expectations. I started to dance with a handful followers, only with them, until they were known as my only dance partners. I want to find something else this time but I think I have to start with the old stuff.