At the end of the pandemic, maybe a new start?

[Brummbaer]

Well, I don't feel 'the end of the pandemic' yet, and we have new variants emerging (Omicron BA.4 and BA.5) which are infecting vaccinated and those who've already had Omicron. Infected numbers reported to be increasing rapidly again. Whilst I tend to feel that catching Covid-19 again is likely, the risks are lower. So, still being cautious with some events - like avoiding large, packed, unventilated gatherings, and some organisers who've thrown away any concept of caution.

I note that some followers are more cautious about close contact.

 

[raindance]

I’m back doing a limited amount of dancing but only because I’m currently immune! I caught covid in April (despite being vaccinated, boosted, generally cautious and always wearing a mask in public spaces). Unfortunately covid stole all my energy and most of my concentration so I’m not physically able for too much activity.

Don't count on being immune due to recent infection, even if vaccinated and boosted. Reinfection shortly after an infection is common with Omicron strains. I'm personally aware of cases among vaccinated people I know, who were infected, and then infected again less than two months later. Doctors I've talked to (as we go about getting our own medical care) say they are seeing this commonly.

So, if you don't want covid again (sounds like this round has wiped you out), keep taking precautions to avoid it. It's a pain, but that's the current reality.

 

[Tangogal]

Don't count on being immune due to recent infection, even if vaccinated and boosted. Reinfection shortly after an infection is common with Omicron strains. I'm personally aware of cases among vaccinated people I know, who were infected, and then infected again less than two months later. Doctors I've talked to (as we go about getting our own medical care) say they are seeing this commonly.

So, if you don't want covid again (sounds like this round has wiped you out), keep taking precautions to avoid it. It's a pain, but that's the current reality.

Oh no! I was under the impression that it was those who had Delta who were now getting re-infected with a strain of Omicrom. I thought since I had Omicrom I’d be ok for six months. I’m still fairly cautious and only dancing in well ventilated venues with a small number of healthy individuals (known personally to me).

Yeah totally wiped for about 10 weeks post infection despite a “mild” dose and fully vaccinated and boosted. Family members (young and healthy including an 11 year old competitive swimmer) took months to fully recover after Delta (circulating in December and January). I couldn’t manage a milonga yet.

IMO my recovery is similar to the last time I had ‘flu. Not life-threatening but still quite limiting.

 

[Brummbaer]

So, if you don't want covid again (sounds like this round has wiped you out), keep taking precautions to avoid it. It's a pain, but that's the current reality.

That's the tricky one when considering your risk. Some areas are worse than others, but a popular milonga event can draw them all in from a wider area and readily become a super spreader. Seen some studies suggesting that previous Omicron infection (along with vaccination and boosters) is not working well against protection from newer strains.

Given the 'Partygate' fiasco in the UK, there's little appetite for any precautions, rather 'getting back to normal' and catching up on what's been missed. Sadly it's going to take some significant changes in risk perception to change that view.

Look out for changes during and after the summer holidays as people travel and mingle.

So, I don't think we're yet at 'after the pandemic', and there might be another 'new start'.

 

[raindance]

Seen some studies suggesting that previous Omicron infection (along with vaccination and boosters) is not working well against protection from newer strains.

Right. From what I understand, previous infection with Omicron doesn't really protect against another infection with Omicron not that long after. And previous infection with Delta, and vaccines and boosters, don't prevent infection either (they probably reduce the risk of infection, but not very protective). Thankfully vaccines and boosters still seem to provide good protection from really severe outcomes.

We're definitely still in the pandemic, not after. It's just changing over time.

 

[Bailango]

Right. From what I understand, previous infection with Omicron doesn't really protect against another infection with Omicron not that long after. And previous infection with Delta, and vaccines and boosters, don't prevent infection either (they probably reduce the risk of infection, but not very protective). Thankfully vaccines and boosters still seem to provide good protection from really severe outcomes.

We're definitely still in the pandemic, not after. It's just changing over time.

Agree. Omicron re-infections are more prevalent compared to previous strains. I think most people have come around to accepting there is a risk of getting infected despite vaccinations, booster, and previous infections. Among those I known, only two or three got caught re-infection. Most hope that infection will cause a couple of days of discomfort. At this stage severe outcome is more likely for someone over the age of 70 and multiple high risk factors.

Locally the milongas are packed. Workshops by visiting and local instructors have been in full swing for at least two months now. Few people still wear masks. Most don’t. We do get a notice if someone at the milonga tested positive later. There was a dip in attendance, Dec through March coinciding with the first wave of omicron. Many dancers reported getting infected (not from dancing) in the first wave.

 

[itwillhappen]

What has gotten better since Corona: there is no longer a surplus of women in my regular milonga, especially at the beginning of the evening it is the opposite. And due to the turmoil of the Corona period, I became a regular DJ there. The number of milongas seems to me to be generally constant, but more of them have been canceled over the summer than usual.

On the fast track trained followers may be missing from the milongas. I had to hear from a professional teacher that the number of participants and so the income is around 50% of what it was before Corona, and that advertising for classes and workshops does not mean that they will take place.

In my town there used to be three dedicated tango schools. One was closed shortly before Corona and replaced by actions in different rooms. A second tango location was flooded with other dance activities from bachata to children's ballet. And the third location is relatively small. So the fixed costs got already drastically reduced.

 

[itwillhappen]

Because of the Corona outages, milonga prices here have (rightly) gone up by 20%, and now they're (rightly) going up by another 20% because of energy costs. While my leisure time budget might decrease by 20% because of the same effects in the core area of living costs.

The end of the Corona crisis, the end of the state aid in Europe, will be a massive problem for tango organizer this winter. I have just as little desire to sit in barely heated milongas as to dance outside.

 

[opendoor]

…little desire to sit in barely heated milongas..

Replace each tango tanda with a swing tanda and the whole house can be heated. Actually I dance more Lindy than Tango cause Lindy currently is the hit in Hamburg! There are by far more swing parties through the week than milongas. I also meet many veteran tango dancers there who also want variety and change in their life. By the way, I now have more swing shellacs than tango shellacs!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Because of the Corona outages, milonga prices here have (rightly) gone up by 20%, and now they're (rightly) going up by another 20% because of energy costs. While my leisure time budget might decrease by 20% because of the same effects in the core area of living costs.

The end of the Corona crisis, the end of the state aid in Europe, will be a massive problem for tango organizer this winter. I have just as little desire to sit in barely heated milongas as to dance outside.

We have heat but prices went up when tango returned late last year and early this year. I would say they increased, on average, by 50% across the board for both milongas and prácticas. It can add up if you go out three or four times a week.

 

[Rabbit]

I have just as little desire to sit in barely heated milongas as to dance outside.

Most milonga venues in my experience have poor air circulation and get too hot and humid just from the dancing, even in winter

 

[Tangogal]

Most milonga venues in my experience have poor air circulation and get too hot and humid just from the dancing, even in winter

I’m asthmatic and very sensitive to humidity and temperature. It’s been my experience that winter venues are both humid and cold! The toilets are usually the worst as they have no heat and open windows. An ideal venue, such as an air conditioned hotel ballroom, is far too expensive for most milongas.

My budget is tight and my partner is not interested in tango. Currently there are no milongas or practicas (that I know of). So I’m going to go to a class once a month or so just to support the hobby. The one I went to in October was expensive and poorly attended.

 

[itwillhappen]

Most milonga venues in my experience have poor air circulation and get too hot and humid just from the dancing, even in winter

This will probably not work with previous drops in classes, and only during a milonga if it gets full. So I have my doubts that milongas are generally CO2-neutral.

 

[JournalInTime]

Montréal is an island and therefore rather dense, so almost all of its milongas are in built-up areas. The city insists that the windows stay shut while music is playing, as that moderates the noise level – when grumpy neighbors complain, the city sides with them. Consequently, we have hot, humid milongas with minimal air circulation even in winter, when it's -30°C outside with a dry wind that makes it feel even colder.

(Part of me wishes that our milongas were like '80s and '90s raves: Out in the industrial wasteland far from residences and businesses, in warehouses with half the windows broken. The music and air circulation could both be strong at the same time!)

This doesn't matter for me right now . . . I tested positive for COVID-19 on November 3 and still test positive today, November 15. Our region is pondering a return to height-of-pandemic restrictions – not for COVID-19, but because of severe influenza and RSV outbreaks among youngsters – so even if I were the sort who'd dance with a positive test, which I'm not, this wouldn't be the time to do it. The social and legal ramifications would be too severe.

Once I test negative and can return to the milonga, I'm going to be searching for the very few that leave the windows open. I find it far easier to deal with a 10°C room with breeze than a 35°C room with still humidity.

 

[David_In_CA]

Montréal is an island and therefore rather dense, so almost all of its milongas are in built-up areas. The city insists that the windows stay shut while music is playing, as that moderates the noise level – when grumpy neighbors complain, the city sides with them. Consequently, we have hot, humid milongas with minimal air circulation even in winter, when it's -30°C outside with a dry wind that makes it feel even colder.

(Part of me wishes that our milongas were like '80s and '90s raves: Out in the industrial wasteland far from residences and businesses, in warehouses with half the windows broken. The music and air circulation could both be strong at the same time!)

This doesn't matter for me right now . . . I tested positive for COVID-19 on November 3 and still test positive today, November 15. Our region is pondering a return to height-of-pandemic restrictions – not for COVID-19, but because of severe influenza and RSV outbreaks among youngsters – so even if I were the sort who'd dance with a positive test, which I'm not, this wouldn't be the time to do it. The social and legal ramifications would be too severe.

Once I test negative and can return to the milonga, I'm going to be searching for the very few that leave the windows open. I find it far easier to deal with a 10°C room with breeze than a 35°C room with still humidity.

I hope you and your partner are doing alright, JiT!