At the end of the pandemic, maybe a new start?

I used to hear that it was pretty difficult to dance as a visitor in London, mainly because of widespread cliques/elitism - is that still true after the pandemic?
There are a couple of especially cliquey London milongas (happy to warn you about those in PM), but mostly it's the usual story for visitors: easy to dance as a leader, tough as a follower. I would always recommend to a visiting follower than they meet up with a leader friend if possible, so they are seen dancing.

Tango Terra and Tango 178 are the two London milongas visiting followers can easily get dances, as they are both super-friendly.
 
The fundamental 'rule' is respect for other dancers and your partner. Anything beyond that just explains to some !;-**# what that means in a particular aspect (e.g. keep to your lane on the ronda, boleos, pausing too long, high sacadas, breaks, lifts...). There's plenty of 'traditional' codigos ranging from no weapons, don't spit in the floor .... only (male) leaders invite, cabeceo only, white shirt and suit for men... Take your pick regarding what needs enforcing or what fits your locale.


To have respect as the only idea to organize dancing is just a partial solution and I think that the person who have respect as their number one value are already behaving well on the pista. For us others the respect talk is like to get instructions in Japanese.

When I started as a leader the practicas and even milongas were very informal so my sins were maybe not so serious as they would be today. Anyhow FUN was the top value on my list. My boyfriend that time told me how easy it was to find me: just follow the laughs! When leading, the collisions every now and then just made us giggle even more.

At some point I decided to work on it. I also understood that when the dance is intuitive I do not have controll over it. Therefore I asked the most irritated leader if he would dance after me and he said NO! I repeated the question every few months until he said - It is quite ok now!

I think the only way to change the situation is to find the dancers main interests, the important value and communicate via it with respect. So what to say to these people?

The dancers loving difficult figures
The teacher JiT spotted in an embarrassing navigation situation
The leader who wants to keep his demanding follower happy
 
I think the only way to change the situation is to find the dancers main interests, the important value and communicate via it with respect. So what to say to these people?
And that's why there are various published codigos for different venues in BsAs. Some are often negative (don't do this, or that); some reinforce the positive (both apologise if there's a collision). But they were primarily the view of what mattered, and was relevant at the time, at that venue.
For us others the respect talk is like to get instructions in Japanese.
And sometimes you've got to spell it out in simple words in terms that are understood there. I agree 'respect others' is frequently insufficient (you're disrespectin' me!); it's just a basis. I'd still emphasize positive aspects.
 
None of this seems to answer the fundamental problem of attracting male leaders, and the social environment to retain them dancing with others, particularly in a non-Argentine culture. Bolting on the old, perceived, Argentine tradition doesn't quite fit a non-Argentine culture, unless you desperately want to buy into the myths.
I think I have been observing slightly less new male leaders (who stick around instead of leaving after a few months) in a few places around here and in the UK. I'll have to ask around discretely and see what the ladies who mainly follow think about that. It's slightly concerning, and I guess if the trend continues in the next decade or two, double-roles/lady leaders will become standard, and we'll see a greater imbalance in terms of gender.
 
There are a couple of especially cliquey London milongas (happy to warn you about those in PM), but mostly it's the usual story for visitors: easy to dance as a leader, tough as a follower. I would always recommend to a visiting follower than they meet up with a leader friend if possible, so they are seen dancing.

Tango Terra and Tango 178 are the two London milongas visiting followers can easily get dances, as they are both super-friendly.
Would love to get those warnings, thanks! And thanks for the recommendations, I'll pass them on to my follower friends. It does make me feel slightly better as a leader at the very least. I was thinking of heading down to the London tango marathon in June - have you heard/experienced anything about that?
 
Ouch - that's something I've felt personally, one follower looked very disappointed afterwards when I was "just" dancing to the music and not leading volcadas and boleos in an admittedly uncrowded floor to a Pugliese tanda that started with La Yumba.
I now it! I know it too! :rofl:
 
I think I have been observing slightly less new male leaders (who stick around instead of leaving after a few months) in a few places around here and in the UK. I'll have to ask around discretely and see what the ladies who mainly follow think about that. It's slightly concerning, and I guess if the trend continues in the next decade or two, double-roles/lady leaders will become standard, and we'll see a greater imbalance in terms of gender.

I think it's actually relatively balanced in terms of the new dancers entering the scene speaking from a London centred perspective - we have some evenings where there are more leaders than followers.
 
I think I have been observing slightly less new male leaders (who stick around instead of leaving after a few months) in a few places around here and in the UK. I'll have to ask around discretely and see what the ladies who mainly follow think about that. It's slightly concerning, and I guess if the trend continues in the next decade or two, double-roles/lady leaders will become standard, and we'll see a greater imbalance in terms of gender.
Can't see double-role females as encouraging prospective male dancers. As I've already said: just a workaround. It's always been, partially, the Strictly/DWTS myth, then some get the difference with social AT and the intricacies of leading. Maybe it needs that social side as well rather than the strict demarcation milonga myth, as well as the opposite sex.

Time will tell...
 
I think it's actually relatively balanced in terms of the new dancers entering the scene speaking from a London centred perspective - we have some evenings where there are more leaders than followers.
We've had the odd single male who's returned recently, giving a leader surplus. Most now turn up as [dance] couples and the single females have disappeared, possibly/probably elsewhere - maybe the dual-role practica. A re-arrangement.
 
I am not especially keen to go to a double roll event and we, solo leaders, are maybe many.

The situation here is more tipping over to a situation when the solo followers are few, and the doubleroll followers are only dancing with their doubleroll friends.
Hmm. Even here there's more flexibility. We have relatively double-role followers. We have some of course, and a bunch of big ladies who always lead, but maybe we're more traditional over here. There's a fairly big Argentine tango community here, plus some Colombians, and lots of Latin speakers in general.
 
None of this seems to answer the fundamental problem of attracting male leaders, and the social environment to retain them dancing with others, particularly in a non-Argentine culture. Bolting on the old, perceived, Argentine tradition doesn't quite fit a non-Argentine culture, unless you desperately want to buy into the myths.
What do they do when they get to B.A.?
 
I think I have been observing slightly less new male leaders (who stick around instead of leaving after a few months) in a few places around here and in the UK. I'll have to ask around discretely and see what the ladies who mainly follow think about that. It's slightly concerning, and I guess if the trend continues in the next decade or two, double-roles/lady leaders will become standard, and we'll see a greater imbalance in terms of gender.
New dancers are hard to acquire--male or female. It takes a lot of determination to get to the point where you can actually dance in a milonga and few people last longer than the first few lessons. We have a fairly large community of dancers, and many with some longevity, but the hard core of serious dancers is not that large.
 

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