At the end of the pandemic, maybe a new start?

[Bailango]

Hmm. My view is different: female leaders are often the most musical on the floor, most visibly in milonga.

Male followers, I agree: most are pretty bad.

Whether men or women, I don’t find a lot of difference when it comes to floorcraft and musicality. I don’t think that has to do with gender and role. It takes a lot of practice to reach a level where irrespective of gender, someone can execute a role well.

I have seen exactly two or three women who are what I would call proficient leaders. All instructors and can dance both roles very well. Of the rest about 50 to 75 odd women I have seen lead, leave much to be desire. Only a small fraction of them display solid intermediate level skills. Excluded are those women who exclusively dance in only leading role. I know of only two.

 

[Bailango]

There is a huge difference between understanding how a particular lead should feel (let's say the cut of an ocho cortado, for example), and actually being able to follow in a milonga.

Ofcourse. First part is learning. Second is about being able to actually dance by putting into practice what has been learnt.

 

[Bailango]

I had the misfortune (?) of being very particular about the music very early on, since it was what kept me dancing as an awkward beginner, which might have contributed to a similar reputation back then. Add to the fact that I am not the most sociable person, well...

Even now, I am quite envious of people who can dance to almost every tanda!

This was me before Covid minus the beginner part. Don’t know about reputation. There is a significant swath of followers I don’t ask for a good reason. They are free to break the ice. Some do, most don’t.

 

[Bailango]

Sure but we also have to look at the effort:reward ratio. How long does it take for a lead to be even decent enough to dance at a milonga? 2+ years? Compare that to other dances which are <6 months. Or other activities/hobbies which require even less.
I’m just saying it’s a very inefficient way to meet people if that’s someone’s main reason to dance. With all the dating apps these days I can swipe while I’m in the bathroom and line up a date for tonight with minimal effort involved.

Of the dancers that I have seen pick up opposite gender at dancing, their dancing skills had very little to do with it. More their social skills. I have seen enough beginners who are able to pick up advance followers.

I think the younger demographics is not used to anything other than swiping Sometimes before asking someone out, you at least want to be sure that you find them interesting enough for the effort. With swipe culture, it becomes more of a numbers game.

 

[Bailango]

Well, in my circles, the goal is expansion, which of course results in some disagreements with pre-existing interests or ideas. For example, as I've said before, I personally belong to the school of thought that doesn't even consider the milonguero/salon/nuevo distinction to be meaningful or relevant any more.

Fully agree. I think this distinction is more academic and theoretical discussion than any thing in practice. I don’t think they were ever relevant.

As far as Nuevo is concerned, the primary distinction was the music played than the physical aspects of the dance itself.

 

[opendoor]

..personally belong to the school of thought that doesn't even consider the milonguero/salon/nuevo distinction to be meaningful or relevant any more.

That's interesting as I come to a similar conclusion by different reasons. Most people stick to only one style because they simply are not able to vary their posture, alinement and dynamics. They don't want to question what they achieved. Or they were taught by teachers who don't mean, or were taught by Argentinians who claim that there only is one true and authentic tango. As soon as you start learning either style (as I did) the style discussion appears to be quite small-minded.

 

[Brummbaer]

Most people stick to only one style because they simply are not able to vary their posture, alinement and dynamics.

I think it's more subtle than that. Sure, you can distinguish between open and closed, but what about the nuances of either? OK, you consider apilado, nilonguero, salon, villa urquiza... but many will not bother. It's your style; it's closed (mainly). It's not always about consciously switching between styles for some composer/orchestra, but it might be for someone who has investigated too much.

Maybe people just need to be happy dancing AT in their own style (assuming it's the optimum for their partner dance).

 

[itwillhappen]

The relative lull following Covid is forcing professionals to more closely target and carefully conduct their milongas. And so I'm reading the announcement of a big Berlin tango school for the beginner's milonga on facebook:

If you want to dance a lot and swap partners, regardless of your dance level, you are very welcome! Beginner-friendly but for everyone - of course with role reversal ... we ritually swap partners every 2 tangoes.

 

[pianistamediano]

If you want to dance a lot and swap partners, regardless of your dance level, you are very welcome! Beginner-friendly but for everyone - of course with role reversal ... we ritually swap partners every 2 tangoes.

That is fascinating. It's a soft [not explicitly forcing them] reinforcement of what they want people to do, and being new, the newer beginners will tend to stick to what is prescribed for them by the organizers/more experienced dancers. The way they use the language is interesting.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

If you want to dance a lot and swap partners, regardless of your dance level, you are very welcome! Beginner-friendly but for everyone - of course with role reversal ... we ritually swap partners every 2 tangoes.

Every two tangos? Not sure that would fly over here; it's far too prescriptive (not the two tango part but the role reversal part), even for a beginner. Also, why not simply have more prácticas and let the beginners work it out there. I'm personally not too thrilled with the idea of beginners at milongas unless it's a milonga exclusively for beginners--which would be more like a class.

 

[itwillhappen]

I'm personally not too thrilled with the idea of beginners at milongas unless it's a milonga exclusively for beginners--which would be more like a class.

This is a milonga explicitly for beginners, whoever else goes there must know what they are doing. The partners will probably be changed like in a class or something similar. And sitting against ones will is not really condoned.

 

[Brummbaer]

And sitting against ones will is not really condoned.

Can one willingly sit and enjoy the social aspect, and discuss, or is the aim to dance every tanda with every possible partner?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

This is a milonga explicitly for beginners, whoever else goes there must know what they are doing. The partners will probably be changed like in a class or something similar. And sitting against ones will is not really condoned.

Oh, well, in that case, sure, it's kind of a purpose-built milonga. Or one could simply call it a práctica.

 

[Steve Pastor]

I ran into one of the women who are getting into AT here in Portland, and during a brief exchange she mentioned that she and her friend are planning on attending the Portland ValenTango which is happening soon.
Mostly out of curiosity (because I quit attending years ago due to the number of people who were apparently only able to think about the new moves they'd learned) I looked at what was planned and here is something I noticed that is new.

Mixer Milongas:
There will three unique mixer milonga unlike any you’ve experienced elsewhere:
MishMash Mixer https://valentango.us/mishmash-mixer/
Texas Tango Hold ‘Em Mixer
Equal Opportunity Mixer https://valentango.us/equal-opportunity-mixer/

Looks like anyone is is overly concerned that AT is hampered by traditions from the past can relax.
Makes me think of West Coast swing; the swing dance that is now danced to pretty much any music played in 4/4.

Also note that this event, which used to be a bit spread over several locations, is being held in the large room where I gave my last presentation before retirement. I was first up with an audience of hundreds, and the IT guy somehow loaded a five days old version of my PowerPoint "audio visual" material which I had continued to enhance over those five days and watched him load the new version before I was in front of everyone. I had only the slightest idea what was coming up next throughout the entire presentation. People told me they didn't notice that I was doing my best to figure out what came up each time I pressed "forward", but when I sat down after finishing.... I was stunned. I recently passed on an event in that same room after being promised free beer, so ... I donknow.

 

[Brummbaer]

Mixer Milongas:
There will three unique mixer milonga unlike any you’ve experienced elsewhere:

Looks like a modern development of an even older AT tradition which, allegedly, gave rise to Tener la lata when tango was danced in pirigundines . Now a sort of mix between speed dating and some formal social mixer at a 'dance'.