At the end of the pandemic, maybe a new start?

pianistamediano said:
So you have 42.5% leaders and followers each, and 15% double-roles.
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You don't know anything. On the one hand because this is self-disclosure, on the other hand because it was written on fb that double-role couples can also register.
pianistamediano said:
Plus, accounting for mood and music and other factors, double-role dancers' desire to dance either role must be taken into account, so using them to balance roles is not very effective unless they are willing to do so.
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I've already danced with 250 selected close embrace dancers in the location, and that was exhausting, not everyone has the stamina to lead then. With 200 people thrown together and live music, that seems pretty ambitious to me.
Because of that and the cost, I didn't sign up, even though the city itself is tempting.

That being said, I do think there are some pretty nice "inclusive" events in the double-role niche these days. The question will be whether this can be carried over into the mainstream.
 
itwillhappen said:
And fwiw LadyLeader , here I just see a double role event near Stockholm.
But I don't think anything related to "queer" will go mainstream.
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I think an event directed towards a specific [?] gender/sexual identity, while (perhaps?) not exclusively for people who identify as such, will never be mainstream unless the target audience is in sufficiently large numbers.

But considering that more and more people (at least in my friend circle, or that I know of, or just in general) are identifying as queer, and since younger people make up a significant proportion of that, plus the fact of the inevitable turnover of dancer population due to time and age and infirmity — I can see a small chance of it becoming mainstream in decades to come, if current trends continue.

As long as they peacefully co-exist with traditional gender norms (which I very much doubt they'd try to eradicate from the totality of tango anyway, unless they are radical extremists), it's just great that queer people have many events and places where they can get together with people like them and feel a sense of belonging that they will most probably not get in a milonga that enforces (tacitly or explicitly) traditional sexual/gender identities.
 
Bailango said:
You can’t rule out self selection at work. More women who like to lead (and follow) signing up because it was already advertised as a double role event. Or friendly to double tone. Simultaneously discouraging anyone who is single role person from wanting to attend.
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Yes, of course, and that similarly applies to the style of music and dance.
I'm currently only amazed at the uncompromising and speed.

A few day ago I planned to register for a marathon, hesitating because double-rolers are said to be preferred, and within an hour the registration list was overrun with women.

Yesterday I showed interest in a gender balanced marathon on facebook and within an hour the organizer got back to me via chat because the registration list for the following women was overrun and he urgently needed leading men.
 
itwillhappen said:
And fwiw @LadyLeader , here I just see a double role event near Stockholm.
But I don't think anything related to "queer" will go mainstream.
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pianistamediano said:
I think an event directed towards a specific [?] gender/sexual identity, while (perhaps?) not exclusively for people who identify as such, will never be mainstream unless the target audience is in sufficiently large numbers.

But considering that more and more people (at least in my friend circle, or that I know of, or just in general) are identifying as queer, and since younger people make up a significant proportion of that, plus the fact of the inevitable turnover of dancer population due to time and age and infirmity — I can see a small chance of it becoming mainstream in decades to come, if current trends continue.

As long as they peacefully co-exist with traditional gender norms (which I very much doubt they'd try to eradicate from the totality of tango anyway, unless they are radical extremists), it's just great that queer people have many events and places where they can get together with people like them and feel a sense of belonging that they will most probably not get in a milonga that enforces (tacitly or explicitly) traditional sexual/gender identities.
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It seems that this event is hosted by the most active queer tango teacher in town. Personally I do not have experience about queer related tango events. I think I have visited such event twice during my time in AT; once in hometown and once in B.A.

During my 20+ leader years I have always and only been part of the ordinary tango community at home and abroad. A few times it wasn't fully smooth but I have been stopped just once. It was a traditional milonga weekend in Riga about 10 years ago and the female organizer wanted to keep the event as such, traditional. But totally several thousand other events have went well and been fun to be part of!
 
LadyLeader said:
It seems that this event is hosted by the most active queer tango teacher in town. Personally I do not have experience about queer related tango events. I think I have visited such event twice during my time in AT; once in hometown and once in B.A.

During my 20+ leader years I have always and only been part of the ordinary tango community at home and abroad. A few times it wasn't fully smooth but I have been stopped just once. It was a traditional milonga weekend in Riga about 10 years ago and the female organizer wanted to keep the event as such, traditional. But totally several thousand other events have went well and been fun to be part of!
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I think I would like to experience it at least once, since I have queer friends, and see what the atmosphere and feeling is like. Perhaps the Berlin festival or something. They've mentioned plenty of times the warm and inviting feeling, but since I am not queer, I don't know how it'd feel for me.
 
pianistamediano said:
they will most probably not get in a milonga that enforces (tacitly or explicitly) traditional sexual/gender identities.
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In close to two decades I haven’t seen or been to a milonga anywhere that enforces traditional identity. What is host going to do? Physically step into Ronda and stop anyone that defies traditional role or refuse them entry?
 
pianistamediano said:
I think I would like to experience it at least once, since I have queer friends, and see what the atmosphere and feeling is like. Perhaps the Berlin festival or something. They've mentioned plenty of times the warm and inviting feeling, but since I am not queer, I don't know how it'd feel for me.
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Not too many attend one or two local weekly events that are advertised as queer milongas or practicas. I suspect they are more often attended by non-queer looking to practice the opposite role. The once or twice I went to specifically labeled queer event, the skill level of dancing was very low.

All our local dance events and milongas advertise as queer friendly. In Tango I only know one person who is a regular at milongas that I think might be queer or may be only an occasional cross dresser that dances in both roles. Other is lady who is gay and only leads. The rest of the double rolers are not queer. Nevertheless they don’t exceed more than 5% of the community.

Cnsider how few people dance tango from general population. Less than 0.1%. Assume same ratio would apply to people who identify as queer, who as a percentage of general population are a very small minority. It is not surprising local queer only events have many be three or four queer dancers at most. A festival will be different. With self-selection at work, it will attract queers from multiple other places if it is advertised as queer festival. It is like running into starwar diehard fans. In real life your chances of running into one are very low. Go to a convention and you will run into thousands.
 
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Bailango said:
In close to two decades I haven’t seen or been to a milonga anywhere that enforces traditional identity. What is host going to do? Physically step into Ronda and stop anyone that defies traditional role or refuse them entry?
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I think using the word "enforce" was too strong - when I mean tacitly, it is more of a feeling, that you see only men leading and women following, and other factors otherwise. It is hard to describe, but a non-straight friend was telling me about it when they were at a rather straight-laced milonga. That there was pressure, at the very least, to conform to the norms, what everyone was doing, and that doing otherwise would be met with disapproval or side looks or glares, even if the host does not step in and tell them to stop.
 
LadyLeader said:
It seems that this event is hosted by the most active queer tango teacher in town. Personally I do not have experience about queer related tango events. I think I have visited such event twice during my time in AT; once in hometown and once in B.A.
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And there is a new(?) encuentro in Stockholm:

Luz del Norte

encuentroluzdelnorte.squarespace.com encuentroluzdelnorte.squarespace.com
Do you have any background infos?
 
Steve Pastor said:
Just looked at evaluations of the recent Valentango in Portland. The new start included mixers and other somewhat bizarre schemes (in the context of what has gone before in AT) to get people dancing with strangers. Looks like the limited number of people who gave their opinions gave a thumbs up.
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Most people generally are lazy to give feedback. Surveys are only useful when critical mass responds. Sometimes you can wonder if people abstain from giving negative feedback.
 
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