LadyLeader
Forum Master
On the other hand, when it comes to showing and in other ways revealing sexually loaded body parts, women drastically predominate.
Cabeceo and Other "Rules"
- Thread starter Gssh
- Start date
I disagree with that. I suspect the incidence of "sexually inappropriate behavior" is quite similar between genders, but the way that it is expressed is different. I started tango in my twenties and i certainly experienced my fair share of predatory partners (everything from being just a bit too lingering in the embrace to more or less hidden kissing and licking), and i still remember with a shudder a thread here a while ago where a follower argued that getting the leader noticably aroused was what defined a good tanda and good following. That said the structure of social dance - both the asking version and the cabeceo version makes it easier for leaders to avoid followers than the other way around (playing social games works equally well -some people are experts at using space and social rules as deniably coercive tools in ways that are very difficult to avoid without looking like the bad actor - i am usually not sure how conscious this is, and i suspect that if people don't think about what is happening then learning and doing things that "work" can happen by accident, but honestly i doubt that there is not at least an element of willful ignorance/denial there), and one of the advantages of men being in general bigger/stronger is that there is rarely a physical threat. Though i have to admit that the common quote "Men are afraid that a woman will laugh at them, women are afraid that a man will kill them" (margaret atwood) has a somewhat bitter aftertaste to me - humans are social animals, and shame is in some ways as damaging as physical injuries. As far as i understand when men are predatory what happens is also much more emotional/social than physical.
I always thought that line dances are great to get people onto the dancefloor with less pressure, and then ease people into couple dancing. It also facilitates to get to other people and feeling like part of the crowd, which then also makes the partner dancing easier. One of the things that i recommend for people who go to BA is to learn chacarera and maybe zamba, and get on the dancefloor (if needed solo) when they come up. In my experience being able to dance the folk dances immediately took me out of the tourist/visitor category and made it much easier to dance afterwards. Even when i ended up solo some woman would get up and join, or one of the couples would "adopt" me for a 3 person version (and one memorable time we ended up with a 5 person chacarera - almost equal amount of chaos and fun).
Being able to dance solo seems to work in salsa, too.
I have to admit that i don't liked the ballroom style mixers. They never seemed to help people get connected for dancing later (but that might be just my experience).
And that's the offender's excuse when brought before the judge.On the other hand, when it comes to showing and in other ways revealing sexually loaded body parts, women drastically predominate.
I don't disagree with your statement, but does it excuse some behaviours when confronted by WMD (distraction)?
On the other side, as a male beyond a certain age, I know I'm not going to look good in ballroom spandex
, or the 'latin' look. Think of it more as keeping awake by imagining the audience during a boring presentation.Your point does raise another issue as to why women dress like they do. Or men. I'm just as likely to request a dance with the follower in jeans as in some skimpy AT dress (in fact, more distracting). But, as noted elsewhere in several threads, it's believed to be what gets them chosen.
Is it expected (and by whom)? Comfortable? Enjoyable? Exciting? Alluring? Fit for dancing? Stand out?
On the other side, as a male beyond a certain age, I know I'm not going to look good in ballroom spandex
No one of any age does, those outfits are ridiculous.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
I see those follower outfits more like extremely beautifully decorated lures, specially formed for catching the really fat tandas!And that's the offender's excuse when brought before the judge.
I don't disagree with your statement, but does it excuse some behaviours when confronted by WMD (distraction)?
On the other side, as a male beyond a certain age, I know I'm not going to look good in ballroom spandex
Your point does raise another issue as to why women dress like they do. Or men. I'm just as likely to request a dance with the follower in jeans as in some skimpy AT dress (in fact, more distracting). But, as noted elsewhere in several threads, it's believed to be what gets them chosen.
Is it expected (and by whom)? Comfortable? Enjoyable? Exciting? Alluring? Fit for dancing? Stand out?
And then there is always, always a stupid male believing that it is about a real thing!
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I know that; you know that. But there still appear to be a good number who think it's ok. I'm more interested in something which is comfortable for dancing. And I don't need to try to dress some mythical AT role since I'm not performing.
And that's the point.
But you're right. I'm not objecting nor saying you shouldn't dress how you want, but some (that stupid male) read more into that 'lure', and use it as their defence when it goes beyond limits.
As a male I've got no chance of acting as a 'lure', except by my dance skills and known personality. (OK, I've seen the girls queuing to be with some younger guys, and at times we were all wishful).
itwillhappen
Forum Master
And as with the common sexually charged advertising for tango workshops and events, we don't need to worry about whether it works. Otherwise hardly anyone would spend money on it.On the other hand, when it comes to showing and in other ways revealing sexually loaded body parts, women drastically predominate.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Okay, where I don't believe that women are involved below average or discriminated in Tango (of Europe) , I can also agree with that as far as the subtleties are concerned.
But then there is still a gender and also role imbalance. If a lady exposes me as a male leader, then I reject her and dance with someone else, which has hardly any consequences for me. That is more difficult for followers. Not to mention the possibility that in my fifties, I might turn the other ear to the women also.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Wow, that's Kirsten Dunst.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Well, who wants to look at the men! And to be honest, at most of the places I dance, the women are rather restrained in their dress. Performers are a whole other world.On the other hand, when it comes to showing and in other ways revealing sexually loaded body parts, women drastically predominate.
Fortunately I don't object to long intense embraces at all but... isn't intentionally trying to get the leader aroused just going to be interpreted as wanting to hook up?
tangobro
Active Member
I was at the milonga & was blissfully unaware of the situation, but heard various versions from those who claimed they saw or claimed they heard from someone who saw what happened. The article provides only one version. I would not fault the organizer. For over 20 years she has gone above & beyond to create a welcoming tango space & has helped to grow the community.
My personal rant about Pablo Veron - 1.His workshop was WAY more expensive than other visiting teachers.
2. The workshop was WAY too crowded. 3. After the workshop I still couldn't dance like him. (JK).
Just kidding - not about the expense or the crowd or my inability to dance, but there was another side to the story. The details & nuances in his explanations were mostly missed in translation, but he was generous with his time & responsive to my questions which weren't filtered by the translator. Bottom line, as a teacher I couldn't fault him. His behavior as a milonguero...
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Since I have not yet felt a tanguera licking my earlobe, I cannot assess such situations.
The question remains whether a nicely dressed tanguera that moves and breathes smoothly in a closed embrace wants to get hooked up.
I can answer the question for me by turning it around: Do I intend to get hooked up if I offer a pleasant embrace and dance smoothly - without interrupting the flow of dancing with all sorts of fiddling around? No.