"Dear Simone"

[v22TTC]

I just don't think it's appropriate to slag someone off on an internet forum - especially when that person has not got the opportunity to defend themselves.

Yup - quite right! Not to mention forum policy, in addition....

[Though, to be fair, some people are just giving it away!]

Just to be clear: I was more generalising about that 'type' of mindset than slagging him in particular - back to discussing the actual points!

By the way, does anybody:-

Agree with him that Argentines (generally, obviously) see themselves as Europeans stranded below the equator? Even now?;

Know why he doesn't write 'cabeceo' as 'cabeceo'?;

Agree with him that the Latin etymology of 'tango' has any relevance, beyond the coincidental and poetic? [I'm very interested in this.]

 

[v22TTC]

this is on the Tango UK forum too..but not much debate there, yet.....

Yeah, I'm wondering if poor Simone's annoyed yet?...

 

[Dave Bailey]

Agree with him that Argentines (generally, obviously) see themselves as Europeans stranded below the equator? Even now?;

I've no idea. I'm having dinner with an Argentine teacher tomorrow night, I'll ask her. But it's an interesting idea.

Agree with him that the Latin etymology of 'tango' has any relevance, beyond the coincidental and poetic? [I'm very interested in this.]

I think it's great - but no, it's obviously a coincidence.

Looking here (at the bottom), it looks like the word (and dance) "Milonga" came first.

If we're talking Latin, that page tells us that there's a dodgy reference to the Latin "tangir" (to play), rather than "tangere" (to touch). But the conclusion is that the word is probably African in origin.

It's possible that the Latin interpretation is correct, but I'm sceptical.

 

[AndaBien]

"Rather we need a teaching method which enables us to find it within ourselves, as all good dancers find their dance, ultimately, within themselves, something which the current model leaves to chance."

"This is the route to achievement, to the beginning of a real tango conversation, and to the foundation of an indigenous and developed tango culture here in the UK. We need teachers who understand this if we are to pursue our own tango destiny, and find and develop our own tango voice, rather than imitate our teachers. "

Seems contradictory to me. On one hand, he wants each student to find his/her own dance. On the other hand, he wants students to find a preconceived UK style of dance. Has he actually defined it yet, or is it just "not Argentine"?

And, doesn't every culture will find it's own style anyway?

 

[v22TTC]

Dave: Cheers - I'd be interested in what the Argentine teacher says... knowing what I know of folks, it only takes a few generations to make people feel that they're from the place they were born (unless the climate is a problem, genetically; or where the displacement was unusually traumatic/horrific; or where there's strict segregation etc etc)....

On the other hand, maybe Tango has kept that longing for 'home' alive, in those that are particularly drawn to it?...

And thanks for the etymology link (and I'm glad Nathan reminded me by bringing it up) - I've got that page somewhere in amongst my mountain of Tango links already... too many... couldn't find it....

 

[bordertangoman]

"Rather we need a teaching method which enables us to find it within ourselves, as all good dancers find their dance, ultimately, within themselves, something which the current model leaves to chance."

that would make Strictly ok... wouldnt it

"This is the route to achievement, to the beginning of a real tango conversation, and to the foundation of an indigenous and developed tango culture here in the UK. We need teachers who understand this if we are to pursue our own tango destiny, and find and develop our own tango voice, rather than imitate our teachers.

technique first; you dont become Miles Davis without learning to play a trumpet first
or the saxophone if you want to become a Coltrane..

?

Seems contradictory to me. On one hand, he wants each student to find his/her own dance. On the other hand, he wants students to find a preconceived UK style of dance. Has he actually defined it yet, or is it just "not Argentine"?

And, doesn't every culture will find it's own style anyway?

there are dance forms which are more about self-expression and exploration or playing with other people eg Bio-Danza, 5-rhythms; contact improvisation; which might give people the confidence to do it their way, but they still need technique to dance tango.....

trad nuevo or whatever technique first.....

 

[v22TTC]

Seems contradictory to me. On one hand, he wants each student to find his/her own dance. On the other hand, he wants students to find a preconceived UK style of dance. Has he actually defined it yet, or is it just "not Argentine"?

And, doesn't every culture will find it's own style anyway?

Hmmm... I hadn't really considered this seriously (as opposed to as parody)... but from what I've heard of the infamous Negrachas club - well, I would say that that pretty much does exemplify general UK attitudes: perhaps the 'poor' dancing there is actually the ultimate expression of the British Tango style?.. maybe we're the cack dancers?...

Damn you 'Problem of Legitimation' and 'Cultural Relativism'!

 

[mshedgehog]

What do you lot think?

I *think* I've danced with him, although he's a bit tricky to recognise from the photo .... oh, there are some more. Yes, that's the guy.

 

[bordertangoman]

Hmmm... I hadn't really considered this seriously (as opposed to as parody)... but from what I've heard of the infamous Negrachas club - well, I would say that that pretty much does exemplify general UK attitudes: perhaps the 'poor' dancing there is actually the ultimate expression of the British Tango style?.. maybe we're the cack dancers?...

Damn you 'Problem of Legitimation' and 'Cultural Relativism'!

it depends on how experienced people are to start with;
have you danced in Cambridge? I started my first lessons there. There is a strong tango community now and i would say they are the most consistently good dancers, perhaps becuae of their longevity and their opportunity to dance more than once a week.

I hope to go to their all nighter in October..perhaps all the uk DFrs should agree to meet there?

 

[JohnEm]

. . . . and i would say they are the most consistently good dancers,
perhaps because of their longevity and their opportunity to dance
more than once a week.

I assume you meant longevity of the dancers rather than the longevity
of Tango in Cambridge? Tango Bar fits best my rather idealistic thinking
of the non-profit way Tango could be organised in today's age. After all
tango was a people's dance, now taken over by artistic commercialism.

Besides dedication and genuine enthusiasm (and you need that to initiate,
participate, develop and sustain any kind of voluntary group/community)
the other key you lightly touch on is the opportunity to dance more than
once a week, in fact to be able to practise as frequently as needed.
Lucky Cambridge dancers!

I hope to go to their all nighter in October..
perhaps all the uk DFrs should agree to meet there?

That's a thought!

 

[bordertangoman]

I assume you meant longevity of the dancers rather than the longevity
of Tango in Cambridge? Tango Bar fits best my rather idealistic thinking
of the non-profit way Tango could be organised in today's age. After all
tango was a people's dance, now taken over by artistic commercialism.

Besides dedication and genuine enthusiasm (and you need that to initiate,
participate, develop and sustain any kind of voluntary group/community)
the other key you lightly touch on is the opportunity to dance more than
once a week, in fact to be able to practise as frequently as needed.
Lucky Cambridge dancers!


That's a thought!

here's details of the Cambridge all nighter..Saturday 23rd October 2010

http://www.cambridgetango.com/site/cambridge/4seasons.shtml

 

[ant]

the infamous Negrachas club - well, I would say that that pretty much does exemplify general UK attitudes: perhaps the 'poor' dancing there is actually the ultimate expression of the British Tango style

I would say more the London tango scene.

You will find the scene in most of provincial tango communities rather different and much more pleasant.

 

[v22TTC]

I would say more the London tango scene.

You will find the scene in most of provincial tango communities rather different and much more pleasant.

Yup, seems to be from my very limited experience... but 'where London leads, the rest of the country follows...'.

Perhaps, for now, in developing a 'UK style', we should employ the usual 'London/ rest of the UK' paradigm? And what about the marked regional differences (which are being eroded, but are still extant), including in what are effectively different countries?

It's obviously a pretty daft idea... sorry - just ruminating publicly....

 

[UKDancer]

There doesn't seem to be much of a social scene round me. Where do people dance around the Worcester (UK) area?

PS: Sorry that sounds off topic. I meant that London is out of the question, and you don't get much more provincial than Worcester...

 

[ant]

There doesn't seem to be much of a social scene round me. Where do people dance around the Worcester (UK) area?

Difficult but off the top of my head:

There are communities in Hereford, Malvern, Cheltenham and Bristol to the south.

There is a community in Shrewsbury (maybe BTM can help?) to the north.

There are communities in and around Birmingham.

If any are of interest let me know and I will try and send some links.