Determining skill by watching

twnkltoz said:
Very true. There's a saying amongst WCS dancers that applies to AT and BR, too:

Beginners do basics. Intermediate dancers do moves. Advanced dancers do basics...really well.
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That is so true.

But it takes people (leaders) so long to figure this out.
 
Yeah...and until you can do basics really well, at least make things vaguely interesting by doing interesting moves. Sux getting stuck with hours of boring, repetitive, crap simple stuff because someone has gotten the idea that "simple is divine" without understanding that you've got to do simple exceptionally well for it to be dvine.
 
If the walking is good, yes. But boring, non-musical walking done crappily (and god help me if the embrace sucks) v. non-musical moves done crappily...I'll take the moves. At least it provides mental stimulation in trying to figure out what in the eff Mr. Guy was trying to lead.
 
Except that they're usually yanking you all over the place trying to get you to do said moves. No thanks.
 
There is something very satisfying about syncing a gentle volcada to the swell of the strings.

I'm just sayin'. ;-)
 
Peaches said:
If the walking is good, yes. But boring, non-musical walking done crappily (and god help me if the embrace sucks) v. non-musical moves done crappily...I'll take the moves. At least it provides mental stimulation in trying to figure out what in the eff Mr. Guy was trying to lead.
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The first option is nothing worse than boring. The second option, according to me, is highly damaging both to you and to him. Dancing with a follower which is accustomed to figure out in spite of relaxing and thinking to the music and the connection is awful: you risk to ruin your next tandas.
 
chanchan said:
The first option is nothing worse than boring. The second option, according to me, is highly damaging both to you and to him. Dancing with a follower which is accustomed to figure out in spite of relaxing and thinking to the music and the connection is awful: you risk to ruin your next tandas.
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you might not have danced with a boring dancer, I suspect. peaches is right. a Boring dancer might as well go and do something else..like Sunday drivers.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
Agree. Beginners are usually not as much trouble as "intermediate" or "advanced" dancers can be.
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Totally agree - and the same applies to all dances. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I can, with 2 mins instruction, get a complete novice follower to dance with me socially (assuming she actually listens to the instructions and does them of course).

I can't do the same with a follower who has two years' experience and is still a bad follower - because, typically, she'll be set in her ways and she won't listen to me.
 
chanchan said:
The first option is nothing worse than boring. The second option, according to me, is highly damaging both to you and to him. Dancing with a follower which is accustomed to figure out in spite of relaxing and thinking to the music and the connection is awful: you risk to ruin your next tandas.
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And what, pray, is a follower supposed to do, or how is she supposed to follow, when there isn't anything resembling a clear lead coming from the guy? Relaxing and melding with the music is great and all, but when you're getting no/mixed signals from the guy you've got to do something for the next 12 minutes...like figuring out what he's trying to get you to do, and not getting hurt in the process.

If that's going to get held against me as a follower (along with looking blissful, or not blissful, or having my eyes open, or shut, or wearing perfume, or not wearing perfume, or being too thin, or too fat, or too short, or too tall, or too casual, or not casual enough, or having too much pressure in the embrace, or not enough pressure in the embrace, or sitting and talking, or sitting and not talking, or standing in the wrong place, or whatever the hell else someone is going to judge me as a dancer by...other than how I dance)...well then fine.
 
Peaches said:
And what, pray, is a follower supposed to do, or how is she supposed to follow, when there isn't anything resembling a clear lead coming from the guy?
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The advice I always give to followers is "if you don't know what to do, then do nothing". I only wish more followers would do this.

That said, I appreciate that this is difficult in a milonga. But if you're dancing with a poor leader, the obvious answer is to say "thank you" after one dance. Thus reducing the duration of the pain, at least.

Peaches said:
If that's going to get held against me as a follower (along with looking blissful, or not blissful, or having my eyes open, or shut, or wearing perfume, or not wearing perfume, or being too thin, or too fat, or too short, or too tall, or too casual, or not casual enough, or having too much pressure in the embrace, or not enough pressure in the embrace, or sitting and talking, or sitting and not talking, or standing in the wrong place, or whatever the hell else someone is going to judge me as a dancer by...other than how I dance)...well then fine.
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When you put it that way... :D
 
Dave Bailey said:
The advice I always give to followers is "if you don't know what to do, then do nothing". I only wish more followers would do this.
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A fine theory, but essentially worthless in practice. Soooo much easier said than done. That works fine...ish...if the guy is doing squirrely things in place, but if you're moving then it just is not possible. And even if you're in place, if you do nothing other than stand there until/unless a lead is clear you run a very very high risk of getting your foot stepped on or kicked or something else which brings with it very dire consequences.
 
Peaches said:
A fine theory, but essentially worthless in practice. Soooo much easier said than done. That works fine...ish...if the guy is doing squirrely things in place, but if you're moving then it just is not possible. And even if you're in place, if you do nothing other than stand there until/unless a lead is clear you run a very very high risk of getting your foot stepped on or kicked or something else which brings with it very dire consequences.
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QUITE right... i think the art of being a good leader is riding the mistakes with such aplomb that you dont miss a whisker of a beat, and that the follower who perceives a mistake on her part will realise its been and gone and she's best sticking with what's happening now.
I mean the music hasnt stopped and short of injury neither have I.
 
I was forced to practise this last year when visiting a festival abroad. I did know anyone there but the two followers I was travelling with.

When I looked the pista I understood I needed to ask someone who could manage sharp turns and changes forced by the crowd around us. I knew also that in this milieu I couldn't maintain any spectacular style so someone enjoying rythmical, small steps dance would be nice and we both could have good time!

I started to spot followers dancing in that way and found some. When I could se that she was comfortable and her whole body was moving relaxed, smooth but still controlled I tryed to remember her.

There must also be a concentration, focusing inwards to the information about axis, direction coming to her body and then creating her movement.

The most frustrating was to find them again when seated for cortina! Too many times I lost my favorites!
 
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