Distinguishing between types of hyper-active following

[AndaBien]

...It was a real breakthrough to realize that I had plenty of time for each step. Even if I want to embellish, I have plenty of time. No need to rush to "obey" the lead. Just because you got a lead (and figured it out) doesn't mean it's URGENT or that you have to do it as quickly as you can...

I began realizing this point a while back, and the more time I looked for, the more time there was. It was as though the music slowed down.

When you think about it, dancing is movement, and the movement comes in between the beats, not on them. A beat from a metronome is only a thin slice of time. Sometimes I think followers think they must be finished with the step quickly, as ordered. By completing a step too quickly, they rob the leader of much potential subtlety. It's like swallowing a bite of food, without actually savoring it.

I think it was Martha Graham who said, "Transition, not position".

 

[Zoopsia59]

I prefer a firm apilado embrace, with my partners arm around my neck.

I used that position all the time until I realized that it is more awkward to adjust from there if the leader wants to open the embrace for certain moves. I think the tendency for followers to place their arm around the leaders arm (paralle to the floor) is because that is the easiest placement for adapting to a variable embrace, while giving the follower a sense of consistent information from that part of their connection.

I know leaders who don't like it, and I have yet to find anything else that works in it's place if the leader wants the embrace to be flexible. I have tried placing my left hand on his arm and having my elbow and arm down, but that position starts to feel odd if he moves into a firm flat on CE. However, if I adjust to have my arm around his neck at that point, opening up again becomes problematic... so where do I put it in that case?

Of course, opening from apilado is awkward to begin with if you are sharing weight at all, so maybe none of this applies to your situation. But my advice to leaders (in general.. not specifically to you) is that if you like having the follower's arm around your neck, don't dance a style that requires a flexible embrace. It's awkward to open on the side of that arm from there.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I think it was Martha Graham who said, "Transition, not position".

Since I was better at Ballet than Modern, that explains a lot to me (the phrase really sums up quite a lot about the two dances). That might be why in the beginning, I was anxious to get to "position" in tango.

 

[LoveTango]

In general, I want the embrace to feel comfortable and committed.

Do you prefer that follower apply pressure from their arm around/behind your neck/or under neck?

 

[AndaBien]

Do you prefer that follower apply pressure from their arm around/behind your neck/or under neck?

Sorry, I didn't quite get the question. I prefer the followers L arm to simply go for a ride. It doesn't need to do anything, since, for me, all the doing comes from the chest area.

 

[LoveTango]

Sorry, I didn't quite get the question. I prefer the followers L arm to simply go for a ride. It doesn't need to do anything, since, for me, all the doing comes from the chest area.

I got a comment from an experienced leader that my L arm should apply a little more pressure (towards myself), to give more of a hug feeling. I don't feel comfortable doing it. I usually just let my arm lightly rested on leader's shoulder.

 

[AndaBien]

I got a comment from an experienced leader that my L arm should apply a little more pressure (towards myself), to give more of a hug feeling. I don't feel comfortable doing it. I usually just let my arm lightly rested on leader's shoulder.

Right. All leaders (followers too, I'm sure) have their preferences. I have certain followers who feel to me like a tailored suit. Other leaders don't particularly like how they feel.

 

[Madahlia]

Sorry, I didn't quite get the question. I prefer the followers L arm to simply go for a ride. It doesn't need to do anything, since, for me, all the doing comes from the chest area.

This position - of largely supporting the weight of my own arm while it is raised above my shoulder girdle so as not to create pressure on my partner's shoulder or neck- would very quickly become torture for me, especially with a taller partner.

I have been told to keep the underneath of my L arm firmly in contact with the whole of my partner's upper arm so as to pick up the lead more effectively. So I do. Until someone tells me different.

 

[AndaBien]

This position - of largely supporting the weight of my own arm while it is raised above my shoulder girdle so as not to create pressure on my partner's shoulder or neck- would very quickly become torture for me, especially with a taller partner...

I can see how that would be true.

...I have been told to keep the underneath of my L arm firmly in contact with the whole of my partner's upper arm so as to pick up the lead more effectively. So I do. Until someone tells me different.

If you are dancing a VU style, where much of the lead seems to come from the leaders R arm/shoulder, I think that would work out best.

I think the connection should be where the lead comes from, and that sometimes changes with certain leaders. (They call it dynamic). If my partner begins connecting too much on my upper arm, then I have to begin leading more with my upper arm. That's not how I do it.

 

[dchester]

I actually had to learn this as a follower too. There is a tendency for some beginner followers (and I was one) to execute a step quickly when they figure it out. It's almost like a panic response. "OH!, It's an ocho!" and they quickly do an oho (maybe subconsciously thinking that if they get there quickly it will give them extra time to figure out the step that comes after it?)

Every now and then, my wife reverts to this behavior. It's very annoying. I haven't figured out if I'm doing anything that causes her to react that way, or not. I'm just glad it doesn't happen too often.

 

[AndaBien]

Every now and then, my wife reverts to this behavior. It's very annoying. I haven't figured out if I'm doing anything that causes her to react that way, or not. I'm just glad it doesn't happen too often.

I think some followers are a bit quick/jumpy because they have to be with certain leaders who maybe don't lead soon enough or clearly enough.

I've noticed a residual effect sometimes with my favorite partners if they have just danced with particular leaders. If I dance with them right after one of those leaders, it may take them half a dance before they settle down. I usually try to wait a tanda before I dance with them again.

The opposite is true, too. If I see a follower dancing with certain guys who lead well, I'll try to dance with them on the next tanda.

 

[dchester]

I think so.

I found comfortable embrace from different leaders. They are all different from each other. I am yet to figure out what is the key.

Could be: firm yet gentle, with confidence and respect.

Some leaders seem not being able to decide what they want. In such case, I would stay with open.

How do a leader feel from the embrace of the follower? What would be good embrace from followers?

The reality is that everyone is a little different (except for those that are a lot different).

I may not even want the same exact thing, if it's a different artist/type/style of tanda. Basically, if I'm going for the connection, I'd like to feel (at least some pressure), and if she's tall enough, head contact adds a lot to it. Now if it's something more lively (or expressive), I'll want to vary the embrace, depending on what we are doing. A lot of the time, there are some followers I prefer for certain types of song (someone who knows how to embrace, for a "connection song"), while others for different types of songs.

The more styles you can adapt to, the better it is. It's shame that more teachers don't give classes on embraces and connection.

 

[ant]

How do a leader feel from the embrace of the follower? What would be good embrace from followers?

I don't mind OE or CE depending on how the follower wants to dance but I think the key to a good embrace is a stable axis.

 

[Madahlia]

The more styles you can adapt to, the better it is. It's shame that more teachers don't give classes on embraces and connection.

I absolutely agree. At the moment, all I'm interesting in is establishing a gentle but positive and connected embrace before doing anything else at all. I want my shoulder, head and neck position to feel relaxed and natural as part of this embrace and the same for my partner.

I managed this last night with a guy who has probably only been dancing AT for a few months. He only knows how to embrace and walk - it was a delight. So simple - tune into each other and walk.

I couldn't help but contrast this with other, more experienced and accomplished dancers, who seem to see the embrace as something that is done to the follower so that she can become an instrument that facilitates - or not - his dance. They rush me into series of complicated steps without apparently noticing that the connection has been lost. Instead of it being "our dance" I feel like I'm reduced to a component of "his dance".

When I feel this with a partner should I tell him? What's the protocol for asking for embrace adjustment - in a practica or a milonga?

 

[Zoopsia59]

This position - of largely supporting the weight of my own arm while it is raised above my shoulder girdle so as not to create pressure on my partner's shoulder or neck- would very quickly become torture for me, especially with a taller partner.

There is a theory that if your upper arm is further towards his neck, the weight won't be as much of an issue as when it is out towards the edge of the shoulder. If his neck is in the crook of your elbow, the downward weight isn't all that heavy especially compared to having it out on the corner of his deltoid muscle. (the hard part of dancing with your arm around his neck is to avoid pulling his forward, not so much pushing down)

Of course that theory falls apart if you dance with someone who has neck problems.