Do women and men want the same thing from tango?

[hbboogie1]

I quite agree, I think connection is part of many dances. I think "connection" may have several different meanings in this thread.

to quote " Meanings is not important. I cannot be right all of the time. Sometimes I is left."
BFG

I quite agree, I think connection is part of many dances. I think "connection" may have several different meanings in this thread.
　
I agree that connection can have many different meanings to many different people in tango. I have always been taught that "if the first step is wrong everything that follows is also going to be wrong".
I think in order to create a connection with your partner you must escort her onto the dance floor face her and assume your stance making sure you have proper balance and posture. Now tenderly wrap your right hand around her waist and offer her your left hand now you can bring her closer to you. Now that you have a comfortable embrace "mark" the music, that is listen to the music and very gently move to the beat or the rhythm to give her a sense of how you plan on dancing to that song. As you mark the music listen for the phrase you want and lead your first step.
If you start each dance this way you will make it much more enjoyable for your partner to understand exactly how you plan to dance and she’ll also respect you for respecting her.You have now created a Connection.

What I see at every milonga is "do you wanna dance" walk on the floor ahead of her turn around grab her and take off. All of this happens in about two seconds and the follower is taken by complete surprise. Is there any chance for a "connection" here? I don’t think so.

 

[Mr Walker]

On this point jantango we can agree completely...

It doesn't take much to keep me happy dancing tango --a comfortable embrace and being protected on a crowded floor are my main criteria so I can concentrate on the music with my partner.

This one is harder but i will attempt to answer for myself of course..

Men -- are you taking care of your partners and giving them what they really want on the dance floor? Do you know what women want or think you know?

Taking care of my dance partner on the dance floor is a given...Just like good manners and respect...Nothing comes before this..And as for the other part of this question am i giving them what they want..I can only tell you what i offer and that is my best and all that comes with it..My love for the music and desire to share it with a partner who feels the same way and for us to share that with the room and other dancers in the milonga..

 

[jantango]

　

I agree that connection can have many different meanings to many different people in tango. I have always been taught that "if the first step is wrong everything that follows is also going to be wrong".

It has many meanings because it hasn't been explained or felt. People have come up with their own ideas of what connection means.

A milonguero's first step is to the left. What can go wrong with the first step when it is done with feeling?

I think in order to create a connection with your partner you must escort her onto the dance floor face her and assume your stance making sure you have proper balance and posture.

That's the American way. It rarely happens in a milonga in BsAs unless one is seated with a partner. This has nothing to do with connection in my opinion.

Now tenderly wrap your right hand around her waist and offer her your left hand now you can bring her closer to you.

Just the reverse. The man offers his left hand first, the woman embraces him with her left arm, and then he bring his right arm around across her back with his fingers placed under her arm.

Now that you have a comfortable embrace "mark" the music, that is listen to the music and very gently move to the beat or the rhythm to give her a sense of how you plan on dancing to that song. As you mark the music listen for the phrase you want and lead your first step.

It's not necessary to "mark" the beat. This isn't done in any other social dance, so why is it done in tango? It's like talking before you have something to say. Women don't need it. They hear the beat and rely on their partners to dance the music. I'd like to know who teaches this and why. It's easy to spot an American in the milongas of BsAs for this bad habit.

If you start each dance this way you will make it much more enjoyable for your partner to understand exactly how you plan to dance and she’ll also respect you for respecting her.You have now created a Connection.

I disagree. You label yourself as one who has never danced in BsAs. No preview is required. Women know in the first ten seconds in your embrace how the dance will be. You are either connected or not.

What I see at every milonga is "do you wanna dance" walk on the floor ahead of her turn around grab her and take off. All of this happens in about two seconds and the follower is taken by complete surprise. Is there any chance for a "connection" here? I don’t think so.

Basic dance floor etiquette should be taught as part of classes. A woman enters the floor first, the man follows, that is if they are seated together. Otherwise, after the cabeceo has been accepted, the man crosses the floor to approach nearby where the woman is seated, making eye contact with her. She enters the floor and positions herself in front of him, waiting for his indication to begin.

Argentine men take their time; American men rush. They begin dancing as if they are in a race to dance more tandas with more partners. Their tango patterns life in the fast lane in the USA. No one can slow down to enjoy the moment.

 

[Mario7]

Wow, GREAT post Jan! The whole magilla...hmmm, perhaps life is different in BsAs!:together::wink:

 

[Peaches]

I pretty much wholeheartedly disagree.

It has many meanings because it hasn't been explained or felt. People have come up with their own ideas of what connection means.

No. It has many meanings because it can mean different things to different people, and mean different things to the same person at different times.

That's the American way. It rarely happens in a milonga in BsAs unless one is seated with a partner. This has nothing to do with connection in my opinion.

OK, so it's the American way. So what? For those people dancing in the US, or in places that are not BsAs, there are different codes which say "This is gentlemanly behavior going on!" Around here, and I'd wager in plenty of places, it's considered polite to escort your partner onto and off the floor.

Just the reverse. The man offers his left hand first, the woman embraces him with her left arm, and then he bring his right arm around across her back with his fingers placed under her arm.

Oh, for god's sake. Does it really matter how a couple gets int the embrace, so long as it's done nicely? Now we've got to have rules about left versus right arm first, as well?

It's not necessary to "mark" the beat. This isn't done in any other social dance, so why is it done in tango? It's like talking before you have something to say. Women don't need it. They hear the beat and rely on their partners to dance the music. I'd like to know who teaches this and why. It's easy to spot an American in the milongas of BsAs for this bad habit.

Actually, it is done in some form in other dances. And I've had plenty of Argentine teachers/leaders mark the beat. I greatly appreciate it. Yes, I can hear the beat. Yes, I'm relying on my partners to dance the music. But which rhythm is he going to dance to? Marking is helpful. And it's nice way of not rushing into the dancing, exactly as you've complained about. It's such a nice way to settle into the embrace, and feel that first bit of movement and connection, before getting going. Why on earth would you find fault with this?

Basic dance floor etiquette should be taught as part of classes. A woman enters the floor first, the man follows, that is if they are seated together. Otherwise, after the cabeceo has been accepted, the man crosses the floor to approach nearby where the woman is seated, making eye contact with her. She enters the floor and positions herself in front of him, waiting for his indication to begin.

Agreed that etiquette should be taught more often. But the way it's done in BsAs does not have to be the way it's done everywhere. Hbboogie has given a beautiful discription of a wonderful way to start of a tanda nicely, politely, with respect for both partners, and an eye towards creating connection from the outset...and you tear it to shreds because it's not how it's done in BsAs. I cannot believe that his methods would fail anywhere in the world.

Argentine men take their time; American men rush. They begin dancing as if they are in a race to dance more tandas with more partners. Their tango patterns life in the fast lane in the USA. No one can slow down to enjoy the moment.

What a sweeping, and often inaccurate, description.

 

[Peaches]

perhaps life is different in BsAs!:together::wink:

Well, yes, it is. And there's a lot to like about it. (Plenty to dislike, but lots to love.) And, yes, the milongas are different. Again, some things I disliked, some things I loved. But as they say, when in Rome...

Personally, though, I don't think it's quite so different as it seems at first blush. There are some cultural tweaks between the two versions of etiquette, but good behavior tends to get you pretty far regardless, IMO. And that said, I'd like the BsAs traditions to stay firmly put in BsAs, and allow the cultural traditions and notions of etiquette in other places reign in those other places.

 

[AndaBien]

... I have always been taught that "if the first step is wrong everything that follows is also going to be wrong".
I think in order to create a connection with your partner you must escort her onto the dance floor face her and assume your stance making sure you have proper balance and posture. Now tenderly wrap your right hand around her waist and offer her your left hand now you can bring her closer to you. Now that you have a comfortable embrace "mark" the music, that is listen to the music and very gently move to the beat or the rhythm to give her a sense of how you plan on dancing to that song. As you mark the music listen for the phrase you want and lead your first step.
If you start each dance this way you will make it much more enjoyable for your partner to understand exactly how you plan to dance and she’ll also respect you for respecting her.You have now created a Connection.

This description is way too rigid, but the general point is still a good one. I like to take a moment to look at my partner, slowly embrace her and get a feel for her, let her get a feel for me. Even with the same partner, she or I will feel differently at different times, to different music. Take a deep breath, feel her hair on my cheek. And, sometimes I just start right out, but never without her. One can connect quickly or slowly, using whatever manner one likes, but the connection should IMO be created before the first step occurs. The direction of the first step makes no difference.

 

[AndaBien]

...hmmm, perhaps life is different in BsAs!:together::wink:

Yes, life is different in BA. As Peaches said, so what? As she implied, we focus lots of attention on the 10% differences, but we forget about the 90% similarity that exists. The Porteños are just people, like all of us.

 

[Peaches]

This description is way too rigid, but the general point is still a good one. I like to take a moment to look at my partner, slowly embrace her and get a feel for her, let her get a feel for me. Even with the same partner, she or I will feel differently at different times, to different music. Take a deep breath, feel her hair on my cheek. And, sometimes I just start right out, but never without her. One can connect quickly or slowly, using whatever manner one likes, but the connection should IMO be created before the first step occurs. The direction of the first step makes no difference.

What about it do you find to be rigid? Seems to me the two of you are saying mostly the same thing, except HBB has, perhaps, a more particular way he likes to get into the embrace.

 

[ant]

Oh, for god's sake. Does it really matter how a couple gets int the embrace, so long as it's done nicely? Now we've got to have rules about left versus right arm first, as well?

Probabally not but some leaders will be noting how and where the lady places her left arm to get clues as to how and where he should place his right arm.

 

[Peaches]

Probabally not but some leaders will be noting how and where the lady places her left arm to get clues as to how and where he should place his right arm.

And again, does it matter? If they watch a beautiful entrance to an embrace, does it matter if he initiated it with his left arm or his right?

 

[dchester]

I think in order to create a connection with your partner you must escort her onto the dance floor face her and assume your stance making sure you have proper balance and posture.

That's the American way. It rarely happens in a milonga in BsAs unless one is seated with a partner. This has nothing to do with connection in my opinion.

Now tenderly wrap your right hand around her waist and offer her your left hand now you can bring her closer to you.

Just the reverse. The man offers his left hand first, the woman embraces him with her left arm, and then he bring his right arm around across her back with his fingers placed under her arm.

Jantango, are you embarrassed to be an American? Some of your posts seem to imply that.

I typically start my embrace with my right hand (similar to what HBBoogie said), and did so in BsAs as well. It didn't bother me in the least that people there knew I was an American. Actually, most of the people figured that out before the embrace (when chatting briefly before the first song). Typically when I said something in my rather poor Spanish, most women would respond back, "Ah from New York?", and since I knew most people wouldn't know the city I am from, I would just say, "No, Boston".



It just seems odd that you appear to have an issue with Americans acting like Americans, even when in America. Does it bother you if the Brits act British?

 

[opendoor]

...Now we've got to have rules about left versus right arm first, as well?

No, o.c., but it is a funny thing to watch how a couple gets into the embrace. Left hand (men´s view) is more like an invitation, right hand like a conquest. It depends on how gritty the guy is, isn´t it?

 

[dchester]

Probabally not but some leaders will be noting how and where the lady places her left arm to get clues as to how and where he should place his right arm.

Yes, I will look to the lady for signs. Some will slowly open up their right arm, and then I'll extend my left hand first. More often than not though, without a clear indication to do something else, I'll start the embrace with my right hand. Some women just want to quickly get into an embrace, while others like to take their time at arranging / negotiating the embrace.

To another point that was made earlier. Sometimes I don't feel a true connection with the follower (whatever that means), until some point into the first song (although this is more true of someone I've never danced with before). From my perspective, sometimes it feels like the follower needs some time to decide if she can really trust my lead before she truly surrenders.
(I realize that "surrender" may not be PC in the US, but it's the only way I know how to describe it).

 

[Peaches]

No, o.c., but it is a funny thing to watch how a couple gets into the embrace. Left hand (men´s view) is more like an invitation, right hand like a conquest. It depends on how gritty the guy is, isn´t it?

I can't say I've ever put that much thought into it. Ever. And I've never thought of right-arm-first as a conquest, or considered describing a guy as "gritty." I can't think of how I get into an embrace even now, beyond "arms up and around" on some level. And I'm certainly not going to start getting rules involved with it.