Do women and men want the same thing from tango?

[dchester]

I don't understand why a man would want "connection" hearing some tangos and not with others. This is why I posed the question, "Do women and men want the same thing from tango?"

I think you make a very good point. IMO, people do not all get the same feeling from various songs. I've certainly danced tandas where I wanted to dance rhythmically, but the follower clearly felt like she was going for the connection. The only bad thing is that it sometimes takes me a half of the first song to figure this out, and then I can adapt. What I will try to do is remember (in the future) to only ask her to dance when I hear a "connection" song/tanda starting.

I don't know what Neotango music is. I dance to tango music that was composed for dancing. I want a man to hold me in his embrace so we are connected throughout the dance. That's what it's about for me. Phooey with the figures. I'm not impressed. They interrupt being in the now.

To me, neotango is the newer music that actually was written for tango (even if it sounds very different from the golden era stuff). Alternative would also included music that was not written for tango, but people feel may be suitable for tango.

 

[Dave Bailey]

That's because you don't recognize as valid anything that differs with your opinion of what tango is or should be, which is an incredibly restrictive and narrow-minded opinion.

I think that's being a little harsh on Jan (and that's me saying it )

Tango is, traditionally, very much about the connection. So it's not unreasonable to question anyone who doesn't primarily value the connection component of the dance. It's like ordering a lovely steak with fries, then throwing away the steak and keeping the fries - why would you do that?

So I think Jan has a point. And I'm with her on the "phooey on the figures" comment also.

But that said:

I don't know what Neotango music is.

OK, now she's just being silly.

 

[Captain Jep]

Especially given that we've had that conversation before

 

[Peaches]

I think that's being a little harsh on Jan (and that's me saying it )

Tango is, traditionally, very much about the connection. So it's not unreasonable to question anyone who doesn't primarily value the connection component of the dance. It's like ordering a lovely steak with fries, then throwing away the steak and keeping the fries - why would you do that?

So I think Jan has a point. And I'm with her on the "phooey on the figures" comment also.

Yes, and has been discussed before...sometimes people are looking for connection...sometimes their mood is different and they want "fun"...sometimes they're looking for a challenge or something exciting...

As Dchester put it:

Certain songs seem to say "connection" for me, while others say something else.

Different music can suggest different things to focus on for different people. There's no throwing out of steak, to use your analogy, it's setting the steak aside to have a later time when you're really feeling like it. Or something. :/

 

[Mario7]

Hi, well, I agree with Jan's last post 100% and I'm glad to read that someone else feels as I do...if she is saying that it is mostly a woman's
perspective, then I'd sure like to know if it was true.
Speaking for myself, I see the changes in the dance, that remove the connection as important, as 'threatening'...that's my feeling and I cannot
explain it.:argue:

 

[Joy In Motion]

Connection doesn't necessarily mean that other things aren't being focused on in the dance as well. And other things don't necessarily mean that connection is no longer needed. As has been mentioned, some people aren't primarily focused on connection but on other things (musicality, physicality or athleticism, creativity in improvising, etc.). However, it is still necessary to have a good connection in the embrace in order for this to happen.

But it is very individual and not based on gender. You do have to feel the other person's energy and get a feel for what they want out of the dance. As you get to know specific partners, maybe you find you connect more with certain types of music. Or maybe you find that you are just looking for completely things in the dance. Then the choice is whether to: a) stick to your usual and not dance with that person as much (to each their own), or b) try to find a happy medium or try to venture out of your own mindset when it comes to the dance and see if you can come to appreciate other motivations and other styles of dancing. It's a matter of choice.

True, you really shouldn't judge someone negatively because they want something different from the dance. It is a choice. But at the same time, I can appreciate someone dancing for connection or musicality or athleticism or choreographic creativity or aesthetically pleasing performance... but if someone is dancing selfishly because they want to show off and they have no regard for the person they're dancing with or the music, then I don't think I'd be judgmental in the bad sense of the word by saying their dancing is not as good or as desireable. A little judgment is good; otherwise, how do you extoll the higher forms of the dance? If you take the philosophy of "anything goes" to the extreme, then the dance would not have developed to the point that it has because there would have been no recognition that certain techniques and values in the dance are more desireable than others. Of course we need to avoid being overly judgmental and closeminded, but I think it's a balance. To a large degree it is a matter of preference and individual personality/style, but the complete avoidance of judgment is not good either when it comes to certain things.

 

[jantango]

I think you make a very good point. IMO, people do not all get the same feeling from various songs. I've certainly danced tandas where I wanted to dance rhythmically, but the follower clearly felt like she was going for the connection. The only bad thing is that it sometimes takes me a half of the first song to figure this out, and then I can adapt. What I will try to do is remember (in the future) to only ask her to dance when I hear a "connection" song/tanda starting.

To me, neotango is the newer music that actually was written for tango (even if it sounds very different from the golden era stuff). Alternative would also included music that was not written for tango, but people feel may be suitable for tango.

There are instrumental tangos and vocal tangos. Each orchestra has its own unique style. Troilo evokes a different feeling than Di Sarli, especially when it's a tango with singer. Each dancer feels differently with each orchestra as well as dancing tango, vals and milonga. That's a given.

I thought the purpose of a man and woman dancing is to connect with each other and the music. I don't understand what you are hearing differently in a "connection tanda." Perhaps your short time dancing limits your knowledge of the golden age recordings. Believe me, women want connection so they can fly.

I have never heard "neotango" which is composed for dancers who don't know what tango music is. Alternative music is used to prevent dancers from having to listen to all that old music from the 40s. If it's not tango music, then what you are dancing is something other than tango.

 

[dchester]

There are instrumental tangos and vocal tangos. Each orchestra has its own unique style. Troilo evokes a different feeling than Di Sarli, especially when it's a tango with singer. Each dancer feels differently with each orchestra as well as dancing tango, vals and milonga. That's a given.

I agree wth this, but I would add to (or complicate) it a little bit more. While the orchestra is a major variable to the equation, the type of song is everybit as important. You mentioned Triolo, so I ask to listen to these two songs (I'm making the assumption that you have easy access to lots of tango music) by him and tell me if they invoke the same feelings. To me, they do not.

If you have these songs (by Troilo) at your access, compare these two:
Te aconsejo que me olvides
La Bordona

I thought the purpose of a man and woman dancing is to connect with each other and the music. I don't understand what you are hearing differently in a "connection tanda."

Yes, those are both purposes (connecting to each other, and connecting to the music). I'm just not sure they are the only two (but that's the subject for a different debate). One way to explain this comes down to what is the more dominant goal in a given song, connecting to (or possibly interpreting) the music, or connecting to your partner.

A connection tanda for me, is when my primary goal (or more dominant goal) is to connect to my partner. Other songs make me want to focus more on connecting to the music. Obviously, both are always desirable, but for me, different songs will make me focus more on achieving one, more than the other.

The interesting thing, is that if the follower feels similar emotions from the music to what I feel, she will seem to enjoy it quite a bit, even though I was more focused on expressing the music (and she'll often compliment me on my musicality). To be clear you can't ignore connecting to the follower though. It's more about what has the priority (or how the music inspires you).

Here are some more songs for you to compare. They are all by Rodriguez.
Connection:
Mirame De Frente
Yo No Se Porque Razon

Rhythm:
En La Buena Y En La Mala
Jueves

Now this gets rather complicated, (because a song can invoke more than one emotion), but when I DJ, I build tandas based upon an attribute (a connection tanda, a rhythmic tanda, a dramatic tanda, A lyrical tanda), and with in the tanda, I try to pick songs that build on whatever feeling I'm going for. Example, in a rhythmic tanda, each song would have either a slightly higher emo or energy level. In a connection tanda, I'd try to increase the emotion.

Perhaps your short time dancing limits your knowledge of the golden age recordings. Believe me, women want connection so they can fly.

While I'm quite sure that's what you want, I'm a lot less convinced that's what all women want. Example, a lot of women really like nuevo, (even if its not my favorite). From my perspective, these people are putting a high priority on connecting to (or interpreting) the music, (a lot more than connecting to each other in the traditional sense).

I have never heard "neotango" which is composed for dancers who don't know what tango music is. Alternative music is used to prevent dancers from having to listen to all that old music from the 40s. If it's not tango music, then what you are dancing is something other than tango.

The first sentence in this paragraph is unclear as to what you are trying to say, so I can't comment on it.

About the other two sentences, I'll say that I respectfully (and whole heartedly) disagree with them. I don't think alternative songs are about preventing, as much as it is about trying to expand on what songs tango can be danced to. We also disagree about whether you can dance tango to non-tango song.

As I write this, I'm now laughing at myself for trying to defend alternative music. If you knew how much I sit out alternative tandas (which is a lot BTW), you'd know why I find my defense of it rather funny. Basically, I do find a lot of the alternative music to be crap for tango, but I also find the same to be true for many songs from the Golden Era of tango. I guess I'm just selective about what I really like.

 

[jfm]

I am really confused, surely it is essential for a good or sensitive dancer to be focusing on connection and the music whatever the style they are dancing? If you want to have crazy playful stuff or acrobatic "moves" you need to be extremely well connected to a. execute it properly and b. make it feel nice for your partner. I don't understand how it would work otherwise or maybe I'm being stupid. Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but the only thing I can work out that I may be misunderstanding is that "connection" has been chosen as a label for something else?

 

[bordertangoman]

I am really confused, surely it is essential for a good or sensitive dancer to be focusing on connection and the music whatever the style they are dancing? If you want to have crazy playful stuff or acrobatic "moves" you need to be extremely well connected to a. execute it properly and b. make it feel nice for your partner. I don't understand how it would work otherwise or maybe I'm being stupid. Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but the only thing I can work out that I may be misunderstanding is that "connection" has been chosen as a label for something else?

I quite agree, I think connection is part of many dances. I think "connection" may have several different meanings in this thread.

to quote " Meanings is not important. I cannot be right all of the time. Sometimes I is left."
BFG

 

[Dave Bailey]

I quite agree, I think connection is part of many dances. I think "connection" may have several different meanings in this thread.

Indeed - most obviously there's connection with one's partner, and connection with the music.

to quote " Meanings is not important. I cannot be right all of the time. Sometimes I is left."
BFG

Sorry, I've used up my sig now, you'll have to re-apply in six months

 

[dchester]

Jan, I just realized one more reason why you would go for connection in all songs. You dance in Buenos Aires, where the dance floors are packed. You typically don't have the room that we have, to try to express yourselves in other ways. So going for the connection is typically the best option (and I'll add, it's a pretty good option).

 

[bordertangoman]

Indeed - most obviously there's connection with one's partner, and connection with the music.

but even this has lots of layers (of meaning, rather than clothing)

 

[AndaBien]

I am really confused, surely it is essential for a good or sensitive dancer to be focusing on connection and the music whatever the style they are dancing? If you want to have crazy playful stuff or acrobatic "moves" you need to be extremely well connected to a. execute it properly and b. make it feel nice for your partner. I don't understand how it would work otherwise or maybe I'm being stupid. Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but the only thing I can work out that I may be misunderstanding is that "connection" has been chosen as a label for something else?

I agree with this comment. Personally, I want complete connection with my partner, and also to be fully "in" the music for every dance. I also think there are two clear types of connection; close embrace and open embrace; but if I dance open embrace (which I don't) it still requires a good connection with my partner, even if it's at arms length. I much prefer the close, intimate connection of close embrace, but I can't imagine a tango without connection to my partner.

And, I very much enjoy dancing tango sometimes to some slow American Blues music. Is it tango music? No. Is it tango? I would say yes.

 

[ant]

Indeed - most obviously there's connection with one's partner, and connection with the music.

I would say that the most important connection is that with the room, to include the other dancers and the floor you are dancing on. This dictates what styles of dancing you dance no matter what the music is or who you are dancing with.

If a person is used to dancing in one type of floor environment ie very crowded and add to that, the same partners, then their views are going to very narrow in what they want from connection with their partner and the music.

IMO you need to experience dancing in many different types of floor environments in a number of different locations with an open mind before you could say what a person should want from a dance, that will apply across the board.