Embrace

[bordertangoman]

I'd also add that connection is not only physical but psychological. You can get all the physiological details right and still be dancing all alone in every other way, insulated from human contact in a little psychic vacuum-bottle.

that's me. With the Colgate Invisible Shield...

 

[Steve Pastor]

I'd challenge anyone to get that very subtle back-and-forth rocking in double time inserted in an ocho cortado right when doing that exercise, to give just one example, or for followers to know exactly how much time they have for adornos.

I Accept.

I'll keep gradually making the embrace closer and closer until the follower makes firm contact on my right side and doesn't allow me any closer because we've already become one single rigid body.

Note though, that it is the full on contact apilado that I cherish. The one with next to zero "V."

A leader who doesn't let a follower come close

unintentionally creates problems for those of us who rather prefer it.

 

[tangobro]

Yes. I think one of my strength is that I do "commit" myself to the dance and embrace.

It is particularly puzzling for me when a leader let me to set the distance. In such case, we are usually timidly start with a half open. Sometimes, venture into closed embrace, sometime would be a non-committal embrace from beginning to end, particularly if we are strangers to begin with. I would see the same man dancing with another lady in close embrace. May I safely guess that I was responsible for the loose embrace?

Possibly, yes. I allow the woman to set the distance of the embrace by letting her decide how closely she wants to come to my chest, and by where she puts her left hand. Around my upper arm or on my shoulder to maintain distance, or around my back or with her arm over my shoulders to maintain closeness. BTW hand pressing against the front of my shoulder feels T h e W o r s t. She then sets the position if she is close by moving into a V position, or parallel. If dancing salon rather than apilado I may allow the closeness of the embrace to change as we dance, but only within the degrees of closeness which she seems comfortable with. So If you started loose & distant with me & did not seem responsive to moments of more closeness during the dance - it would stay loose & distant.

 

[LoveTango]

Depends on what you call "work". It's useful as an exercise (to learn to focus on the partner) but as I said you need at least one arm to make it work completely so as to get the timing between partners and very subtle leads completely correct. I'd challenge anyone to get that very subtle back-and-forth rocking in double time inserted in an ocho cortado right when doing that exercise, to give just one example, or for followers to know exactly how much time they have for adornos.

I can probably hop to the greengrocer on one leg; it doesn't mean that I should do that every day .

Well， besides using it as exercise, I don't see why not to use hands and arms.....unless someone don't have one and still wish to dance tango.

 

[LoveTango]

That statement is particularly puzzling to me: usually, a negotiation like that with me is "I'll let you come as close to me as you're comfortable". In other words, I'll keep gradually making the embrace closer and closer until the follower makes firm contact on my right side and doesn't allow me any closer because we've already become one single rigid body. Perhaps you don't see that as "a leader letting you set the distance" but that is exactly what he does.

Of course it's not "I'll just let my arms dangle by my side and wait until you plonk yourself somewhere and that's where we'll end up relative to each other". So perhaps we're agreeing violently.

A leader who doesn't let you set the embrace is one that yanks you closer regardless of the signals you'd send, or who doesn't give you the time to respond and negotiate. I've never seen any follower I know who likes that.

A leader who doesn't let a follower come close is one who will refuse to fully embrace a follower when she's too close and/or will actively prevent her left arm from reaching where she'd like it. I've never seen a follower resent it as much, but I have seen couples awkwardly negotiating an embrace for a minute or so when the woman wants to dance closer than the man is prepared to allow.

In words it is not easy to tell, but in actions, a leader can invite close embrace without "yank" you close. A slight forward lean gives a clear signal.

 

[LoveTango]

This is because difference people have different preferences. Some people want some weight sharing (and the amount varies from person to person), while some want no weight sharing. Some want a lot of resistance / pressure from the follower's right arm, while others want very little.

There's no single way that will work best for everyone, thus people tend to fall into two camps, those that try to adapt to whoever they are dancing with, and those who won't (and they only dance with selected people).

Neither strategy is wrong, BTW. It simply comes down to whether you want to dance most of the tandas, or only a few (and some people are quite happy to only dance a few tandas with their favorite partners). Maybe in the beginning, I think it's best try to try to be sensitive and adapt to different styles, but typically, people develop preferences for certain things / styles, and obviously will try to focus on those things.

I agree fully. These are also my observations. I used to be proud that I can adapt to different leader's styles, but now I become more selective. One of the reason is that I don't have the energy level to dance all night, so I would like to conserve energy for my preferred partners.

 

[LoveTango]

Possibly, yes. I allow the woman to set the distance of the embrace by letting her decide how closely she wants to come to my chest, and by where she puts her left hand. Around my upper arm or on my shoulder to maintain distance, or around my back or with her arm over my shoulders to maintain closeness. BTW hand pressing against the front of my shoulder feels T h e W o r s t. She then sets the position if she is close by moving into a V position, or parallel. If dancing salon rather than apilado I may allow the closeness of the embrace to change as we dance, but only within the degrees of closeness which she seems comfortable with. So If you started loose & distant with me & did not seem responsive to moments of more closeness during the dance - it would stay loose & distant.

I will definitely keep this in mind. My own mentality is that I don't want to impose myself upon the leader.

 

[newbie]

My own mentality is that I don't want to impose myself upon the leader.

Good. The embrace is part of the lead, and the lead is done by, well, the leader.

 

[sixela]

One of the reason is that I don't have the energy level to dance all night, so I would like to conserve energy for my preferred partners.

But my preferred partners don't all dance the same style or prefer the same embrace. I think that to select to narrowly on the embrace weeds out many good dances (obviously, that doesn't mean that selecting on the embrace in a rough way isn't something you'd do; I dance in open embrace only on very specific music and with very specific people, whereas I'll dance in close embrace without being as picky; but even in close embrace there's an entire galaxy of embraces).

 

[sixela]

In words it is not easy to tell, but in actions, a leader can invite close embrace without "yank" you close. A slight forward lean gives a clear signal.

Well, given " I'll keep gradually making the embrace closer and closer until..." I think I'm always giving that signal, i.e. invite a close embrace (if a woman stays on the same spot and doesn't lean forward, the only way to keep making the embrace closer is to lean forward slightly, which usually invites a lean from her as well).

But I have actually encountered followers who still didn't come close (but were apparently unsatisfied afterwards by the lack of closeness). But perhaps I'd eaten too much garlic that day .

Sometimes it Just Doesn't Work. I've danced with a follower recently whom I sensed didn't trust me at all and had only reluctantly accepted to dance (even though I may be attributing motives that weren't there, that's how it felt). I don't think there's any way to make that work.

 

[opendoor]

But my preferred partners don't all dance the same style or prefer the same embrace. I think that to select to narrowly on the embrace weeds out many good dances (obviously, that doesn't mean that selecting on the embrace in a rough way isn't something you'd do; I dance in open embrace only on very specific music and with very specific people, whereas I'll dance in close embrace without being as picky; but even in close embrace there's an entire galaxy of embraces).

would second that :cheers:

 

[Peaches]

Good. The embrace is part of the lead, and the lead is done by, well, the leader.

It's not that cut-and-dried. There is a lot of disagreement over this point (even among Argentines).

 

[dchester]

I will definitely keep this in mind. My own mentality is that I don't want to impose myself upon the leader.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Remember, he asked you to dance, so don't be afraid to embrace him. He'll adjust it, if it's too much for him.

 

[dchester]

Good. The embrace is part of the lead, and the lead is done by, well, the leader.

I wouldn't agree that the embrace is part of the lead. The embrace is used to facilitate the lead, but the embrace is also for comfort (at least for some of us).

 

[dchester]

Sometimes it Just Doesn't Work. I've danced with a follower recently whom I sensed didn't trust me at all and had only reluctantly accepted to dance (even though I may be attributing motives that weren't there, that's how it felt). I don't think there's any way to make that work.

If I get in one of those situations, I just try to dance my dance as best as I can. If she's not going to like dancing with me, I don't want it to be because I'm doing something unusual, trying to figure out how to impress her.

A lot of times, it works, and you'll feel the woman relax and settle in halfway through the first song in the tanda (sort of like she decided, OK, maybe he can dance after all). Nothing always works, though.