Emotional maturity or what is that we are looking at - Gavito Festival 2024/Gustavo Naveira - Giselle Anne ?

Well, it's turned into an absolute shitshow on Facebook, and I've run out of popcorn already but the shops are closed o_O

Plenty of all men this, all men that, patriarchy everything, feminazis, not all men, et cetera.

All I really care about is that my friends are fine, and they are, so eh. They know what kind of person I am, so I won't be tarred with the same brush.
I haven't been following it other than to read Naveira's apologia. But I think it's unfortunate that these two talented people have to see their personal issues (whatever they may be) discussed and dissected on social media.
 
All I really care about is that my friends are fine, and they are, so eh. They know what kind of person I am, so I won't be tarred with the same brush.
Yes, of course, but I would still find it unpleasant to read on Facebook that someone from my distant circle of acquaintances demands to be "respected, supported, appreciated". That is not possible without drawing conclusions about how the current situation is perceived. While I don't feel there much leeway.
 
respected, supported, appreciated

Sure, as much as I'm respected (not really), supported (not at all), and appreciated (not in my local scene, no)! :rofl:

One doesn't get to demand all these things; one is either given these things, unfairly (lineage, inheritance, appearance, whatever) or fairly (earned), or not given. Just because a person exists doesn't mean they should be given more than a (minimum and adequate) modicum of respect, support and appreciation.
 
I haven't been following it other than to read Naveira's apologia. But I think it's unfortunate that these two talented people have to see their personal issues (whatever they may be) discussed and dissected on social media.
I would say that it is not their personal issues being discussed here/on social media but their public behavior.
 
I would say that it is not their personal issues being discussed here/on social media but their public behavior.
Well, in a narrower sense, it was an incident during a stage performance. It could best be compared to professional sport; he was excluded from this event and, in fact, the following events (San Antonio, Istanbul, ???) due to grossly unsportsmanlike conduct; his career may be over. If you are a performer yourself, you should carefully consider to what extent such a derailment could happen to you.

But this is also an excellent projection surface for social dancers. And although they were never exposed to the stress of a stage performance, they eagerly project their experiences in the ronda, away from the ronda, in classes, in their private life, in their professional life onto this incident; including the couples private life. That is entirely human and practically impossible to prevent, so let's see what comes of it.
 
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Gustavos' facial characteristics showed some rage right from the first step on.
And? He's a professional and it's his job to perform at that place at that time. Whether he feels like it, whether he had to teach a bunch of idiots in his workshops, whether he had bad time in bed the night before, none of that really matters when the referee sends the player off the field.
 
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He did have an option to sit it out at that moment. He could have told the organizers it was’t good time to have him perform. It might have caused a small flak or nothing at all. Organizers could have some other couple perform or cancel the performance for that hour.

That’s what people do when there are personal issues that could impact their professional life. Mature people take a step back.

I have read others say that this is not the first time he mistreated his partner in public. We know people in our personal lives you have that kind of behavioral pattern. May be real personality spilled out in public.

I am trying to remember this type of behavior publicly by a star dancer in public against his or her partner in any form of dancing that I know. I can’t think of any such incident. I don’t know nor follow ballroom.
 
That’s what people do when there are personal issues that could impact their professional life. Mature people take a step back.
As I said, a lot of people project their values onto this incident, even though or because they have never done a performance like this before. And so others are funnily speculating why the audience applauded and why the organizer didn't intervene earlier.

Apart from that, based on the descriptions and videos, I also get the impression that he usually tried to appear as unsympathetic as possible in workshops. So maybe his "maturation process" has completed.

I can also understand that this is being used as a crystallization point for the demand for different behavior from men in tango, that tango shall be more women-friendly. But I suppose that at least women over 40 will have to get along with the existing men ... or women, of course. Not to mention that we actually might need tango to be more men-friendly.
 
As I said, a lot of people project their values onto this incident, even though or because they have never done a performance like this before.

Why does this matter? Regardless of the stress of an event, there are certain standards of conduct between people that we can, as a society, demand.
 
Why does this matter? Regardless of the stress of an event, there are certain standards of conduct between people that we can, as a society, demand.
Did anyone question that? But if you focus so closely on this performance, then the demands of society have already been met. He was thrown out of the event, he (or someone else) wrote a lengthy apology, the planned performances were canceled and no further ones are known so far.

Now the question is what else will come to light, alongside a wave of opinions. So whether this video can be filed away as evidence or whether it will be seen as the historical document of a turning point.
 
I can also understand that this is being used as a crystallization point for the demand for different behavior from men in tango, that tango shall be more women-friendly. But I suppose that at least women over 40 will have to get along with the existing men ... or women, of course. Not to mention that we actually might need tango to be more men-friendly.

Nothing will really change, unless there is drastic action taken — maestros and the best of the best (non-professional) male leaders will still rule from their high table, and therefore the trickle-down social dynamics remain the same. Things might get slightly worse for beginner and average leaders, most of whom already behave fine, or just have no power to abuse in the first place.

I don't mind leaving tango if it gets too women-friendly and therefore makes it less enjoyable for me (it's essentially a zero-sum game beyond some threshold, because enjoyment is finite), but that will probably not happen for at least five to ten years. I have nothing against female leaders or male followers, and I support their endeavours. I would even preferentially dance with a few male followers of my acquaintance over many female followers.

But I would find an environment where too many (subjective!) couples on the pista are woman-woman pairs much less interesting. I have other hobbies anyway, and I might pivot to zouk or bachata if I feel like it.
 
Why does this matter?
Because the impact area expands well beyond those primarily impacted.

Aside from the actual incident, and whatever preceded it, there's a whole load of social media personal issue projection onto this.

In the US you may not have come across the 'bullying'** incident(s) which has recently tarnished Strictly. There's a whole spectrum of responses to that as well.

I don't wish to add to this by going into detail, nor the social media responses.

@pianistamediano has already referred to the type of response
Well, it's turned into an absolute shitshow on Facebook, and I've run out of popcorn already but the shops are closed o_O

Plenty of all men this, all men that, patriarchy everything, feminazis, not all men, et cetera.
so I won't go into details. You can look them up. Traumatic personal life problems get projected onto 'dance' in general, and the male sex in particular. Obviously this incident is AT in particular and associated perceptions of toxic attitudes, which have been aired previously.

The Strictly incident, coupled with others in high-level sports training, impacts any training (and, in other events, there's certainly a documented incident of an advertised paediatrician's consulting rooms being attacked because the low-intellects don't know the difference between that and a paedophile - and consider such actions appropriate). I appreciate the courage of any young male now considering working with young children. You will doubtless be aware of the toxic nature of some of these unfounded conspiracy theories promoted by those who should know better:rolleyes:

As the saying goes: It has legs. It's difficult enough getting males into dance. I don't see that this incident will help.

** I can say 'bullying' because the BBC has accepted the verbal 'bullying' claims, but not others.


PS - let's not divert into these. I only give them as examples of the expanded impact area beyond publicly trashing lifetime careers of individuals within the narrow focus of this performance.
 
I would say that it is not their personal issues being discussed here/on social media but their public behavior.
Not sure about that. I agree it overflowed onto the stage, but it should also end there. We're not marriage counselors and they didn't ask for our opinion. This reminds me too much of the way the tabloids talk about the private lives of movie stars and singers.
 

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