Get Outta There!!

JournalInTime said:
There's resistance in tango teaching and tango communities to the idea that followers can help decide how leading is done. If followers repeatedly accept invitations from leaders who take huge steps or shove them off to one side . . . well, no surprise, leaders will keep on doing that, regardless of whether teachers tell them not to. While it tends to be followers who tolerate poor leaders by virtue of accepting invitations, the core concept holds for leaders as well.

What "sticks" at the milonga isn't what's taught, elegant, polite, or popular in YouTube videos, but the laziest habits people can get away with yet still dance. For many leaders, that's minimizing the follower's space in the dance in order to show off cool steps or manly strides – or dancing with the follower off to one side in order to remove the need to learn to turn to see traffic and the need to learn to walk to avoid stepping on feet. For many followers, that's using the leader as a barre or pole to show off their cool ornaments and best floating princess impression, meaning they don't need to learn to manage their own energy and balance – or settling into an armpit because it's snuggly.

If followers and leaders simply refused to dance with people with those bad habits, said habits would fade away. But as those habits make dancing easier for many, they're tolerated . . . and newcomers see them and get infected by the same virus. Of course, those habits also make dancing less safe for all, but that seems to be a low priority for many. Those habits cut off entire realms of vocabulary, too, but that stuff would require more pesky learning anyway.

Improvement is hard, bad habits are easy. I strongly suspect whoever causes the armpit thing, it won't go away because it's too convenient for many.
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As somebody said on another thread: it’s often a choice between poor dancing and no dancing.
 
Greybeard said:
This reminds me of the Ballroom concept of "the wall". The leader sets a wall where he wants the follower to stop. The right arm sets a good wall.
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In the context of tango, the concept sounds too harsh to me. I want to reduce the amount of force I use as much as possible so that I can feel where the follower wants to dance or is dancing. And, if possible, accompany her for the moment.

Yesterday I observed myself, in many situations I can loosen the contact in my upper body a little with a suitable movement, move myself(!) a few centimeters to the right and reconnect.

But that might also easier due to that in the medium term I only dance with women who don't have any problems with a close embrace, so that they don't need constantly to get away from contact in the upper body.
 
itwillhappen said:
In the context of tango, the concept sounds too harsh to me. I want to reduce the amount of force I use as much as possible so that I can feel where the follower wants to dance or is dancing. And, if possible, accompany her for the moment.
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It's a block; not forcibly moving the follower with the arms. Nor do you want the follower airily wafting around in some free dance of their own. In the example given I'd say that's akin to stopping the follower for, say, a parada, or calesita, or any 'cut' step, like an ocho cortado, or even a boleo. Interpretations may vary.
 
noobster said:
I have had this happen at times, sliding to the leader's right. I don't like it either (I prefer a full-frontal embrace, given the option). I'm not totally sure why it happens but I have speculated that it could be step length mismatch, where his steps are longer than mine and he is effectively walking past me. (I'm 160 cm.) I've tried to remedy by lengthening my steps but that has never worked very well, and if I extend my steps too much it becomes difficult to dance with good control.
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It has nothing to do with steps for me. Women just gravitate to the armpit before I even step.
 
Tango Distance said:
... or a weighted mean, weights being the inverse of the square root of the years of experience.
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That could well be the case here (gravitating to armpit). Now if the group were to amalgamate with another group, then we might observe the 'paradox of reversal' - in one group or the other within the amalgamated group. The amalgamated group would either adopt the trend, or not. Behold, a new style has evolved.

I'd almost forgotten weighted means from my statistics and other mathematical studies. Averages of various types have recently become political fodder in England and the UK.
 
itwillhappen said:
In the context of tango, the concept sounds too harsh to me. I want to reduce the amount of force I use as much as possible so that I can feel where the follower wants to dance or is dancing. And, if possible, accompany her for the moment.
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If you reduce the amount of force in the connection too much you won't be able to feel where she wants to go. And she won't feel where you want to go. Here we're just limiting the embrace to something comfortable for both.

And yes, a lot of the uses of the ballroom wall are too abrupt for tango.
 
Rabbit said:
So the theory is now that in OP's area the more experienced they are the more gravity pulls them into the armpit?
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Well, you could argue for the gravitational attraction of a black hole...

But I suspect not.

Or maybe the 'repellant' is not washing that area:jawdrop:
 
Rabbit said:
So the theory is now that in OP's area the more experienced they are the more gravity pulls them into the armpit?
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I expect less experienced followers to get into the armpit. More experienced followers should know that wedging themselves in the armpit constricts the rotation of their shoulders.

You don't drive a car with the parking brake applied. Dancing in the armpit is dancing with the "dancing" brake applied.
 
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