How should followers learn to dance tango?

@ Zoopsia59
For seven couples I assumed one teaching couple. I think individual time is helpful for the student as well for the teacher to evaluated the students progress and current level.

@Mario
I grew up with Hiphop and my girlfriend’s Grandma with Charleston. We don’t need a teacher for those things, because it was what everybody did anyway. Nevertheless, today there are many hiphop schools around (only they call it street dance) and some of the stuff is way more sophisticated than what my friends and I did in our backyard. Just because I grew up with hiphop does not mean it should never be taught or that there is nothing I could possibly learn.

Can it be that you develop a dislike against any form of teaching because you don’t have access to a qualified Tango teacher? If you have supported yourself by any kind of freelance work, you will agree that having a flock of satisfied customers is directly connected to putting food on your table and has nothing to do with a pyramid sheme.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
My teacher didn't care about class size and he wasn't making his living in dance. So he did as he thought best, and never got a lot of students.

But I turned out ok at least.... ;)
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IMO when you begin your Tango learning experience it is all about the teacher and I am having a lot of trouble figuring out at that stage why someone would want have private lessons with a teacher and not have have group lessons with that same teacher.
 
ant said:
IMO when you begin your Tango learning experience it is all about the teacher and I am having a lot of trouble figuring out at that stage why someone would want have private lessons with a teacher and not have have group lessons with that same teacher.
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In a private lesson the person you are trying to follow knows what is going on and can lead it. In a class the person you are trying to follow doesn't know what is going on, by definition, since he's in a beginners class, and almost certainly won't be able to lead it very well.
 
I guess I agree in principal with AndaBien, that starting off with privates is probably the best way to learn for a beginner.

However, the cost likely keeps some people from starting off this way. Also, some people see the group classes as having the side benefit, of being a way to meet new people.
 
IMO, while the price tag seems higher, they pay off in terms of efficiency in the long run. *shrug* Just IME.
 
Steve Pastor said:
I just spent four days taking lessons from someone who has a long standing, but ever being refined method for teaching partner dancing, in this case West Coast Swing. She and her fellow teachers think AT is 10 years away from a similar approach.
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Skippy Blair seems to believe that her system applies to other dances. She's expressed similar opinions about Modern Jive.

I don't believe she's really qualified to have an authoritative opnion on the level of teaching of Argentine Tango. I don't even think she's really qualified to have an opinion on MJ, and that's a far closer dance form than AT.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
7 couples is 14 dancers. This would definitely be stretching the limit of what I personally can deal with as a teacher (in fact, its over my comfort level).
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I had about that many last week. However, I had an assistant teacher and two taxi dancers to help out, so it was fine.

It's not so much a question of "teaching ability" but "interaction". If you teach, say, an hour-long class of 30 people, then you simply can't interact with each student, you physically don't have the time to spend on them. So larger classes are reduced to "instruct from a script and fix the worst ones" sessions.

Zoopsia59 said:
Of course, this is exactly the OPPOSITE of what usually happens in that "famous" guest teachers get huge classes and locals get a few loyal diehards who take consistently from them (at least around here)
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Yes, guest teachers, pah.

That said, Andreas Wichter is teaching a 4-hour Milonga workshop on Saturday in London - unfortunately I can't attend :( - but I totally respect the fact that he's put a limit of 5 couples on the workshop. I'll be attending his class on Friday at Carablanca, but I suspect that won't be great, as again it's likely to have 30+ people there.
 
Steve Pastor said:
I just spent four days taking lessons from someone who has a long standing, but ever being refined method for teaching partner dancing, in this case West Coast Swing. She and her fellow teachers think AT is 10 years away from a similar approach.
I wonder?
And I also wonder what others here think about it?
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Could you explain what method that is, and how it would apply to AT? I'm curious to know.

Also, I agree with Zoopsia here (below). I do think you will learn technique in a group class if you have a good teacher, and the class is smaller.

Also, for what it's worth - as a beginner, I was never even made aware that privates were an option (for any style of dance). Literally, I thought group classes were the only thing that existed. It wasn't until I danced for months and started talking to other people that I found out some of them took privates. It's like some big mystery-shrouded thing.

Shouldn't there be a more beginner-friendly approach to offering private lessons? I mean, most of my local studios/teachers don't have brochures/flyers/websites listing private lesson package specials and explaining/comparing with group classes. If privates are really so efficient for learning, wouldn't it be helpful to explain that? If I know that, say, one private will teach me as much as four group classes, it's something I would definitely consider.


If I'd had to fork over $50-$100 an hour for privates when I first started tango, I wouldn't have taken it. I'd still be doing ballroom. But then, I DID get this proper instruction in class right from the get-go, so I know it can be done. Maybe not with personal attention every class if the class has 20+ people, but in a midsize city like ours and others across the US, few beginner classes ever have that many.

I'm not saying NEVER take privates. I'm saying group classes need to be better so people don't have to take privates just to get proper beginner level instruction. It should be an exception because of an unusual lack of good beginner instruction, not the NORM.
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Group classes are not bad just different.

Pros
  • meet funny people
  • test your skill with different partners
  • a more milonga like situation
  • it helps to see that other couples are struggling too
  • lower price
Cons
  • you need a partner
  • the lesson is not tailored especially for your needs
  • you have to dance with partners struggling with the steps as well, hindering your progress
  • the other participators might not share your approach to tango (Having fun. mastering the dance, finding a partner ...)

I don't generally recommend private classes to beginners for the same reason, I don't tell them to buy proper dancing shoes or music CDs: it's not completely fair. Before they spend a lot of money on Tango, I think it's better that they try out if they like it at all. I don't make a mystery off private classes, they are on my price list.
 
AndaBien said:
In a private lesson the person you are trying to follow knows what is going on and can lead it. In a class the person you are trying to follow doesn't know what is going on, by definition, since he's in a beginners class, and almost certainly won't be able to lead it very well.
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Can I assume therefore that there is not an issue with the teacher or what that teacher is teaching in a group class.

and the advantage to the follower is that she bypasses the leaders of the same level of experience when learning.

This then raise two questions in my mind:

1 How do the get new leaders if they themselves do not take private lessons
2 How does a new follower build up her experience of dancing with other leaders.
 
Leaders and followers, that team up as a dancing couple and help each other along the journey of tango, have the most fun - and that often over years. The most efficient private lesson is the combination of one regular dancing couple being taught by a teaching couple. However tango is not mainly about efficiency, but enjoying the music with a partner.
 
I would quadruple the number, but I can't completely disagree with Tete. On reason more to raise the level of teaching. Unfortunately, it's to late to ask him if he considered himself among the happy few and who the other 4 are.
 
dchester said:
...
However, the cost likely keeps some people from starting off this way. Also, some people see the group classes as having the side benefit, of being a way to meet new people.
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Yes, the cost would be a definite factor. I do think beginning followers should attend classes later on, both to meet other dancers and to learn to follow other types and qualities of leads.
 
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