Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[pianistamediano]

I think you're wrong. You can't intentionally dance in a unmusical manner. The untalented dregs are just lucky because the gender ratio is so unfair.

Unmusical dancers, by existing, merely make me shine all the brighter, so I graciously allow their continued existence in tango.

 

[opendoor]

Chapeau, pianist, you are becoming our next tango philosopher. (I miss bordertangoman who previously held this position). But your aphorisms really are as good.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Most of the leaders like that don't feel a need to be actually musical because they get enough dances. Followers should have way higher standards if not for the imbalance.

Partly true. Followers mostly want to dance and not all of them understand musicality or have a deep feeling for the music. So, it's better than sitting.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The leader also has to have the skill to make the dance match the music. It's not easy

True, it's not easy. But not impossible. But tango isn't easy in general if you want to dance it well.

 

[JournalInTime]

Partly true. Followers mostly want to dance and not all of them understand musicality or have a deep feeling for the music. So, it's better than sitting.

This is no different for leaders. The idea that leaders have better musicality and understanding of the music is wild . . . My real-world experience is that followers generally do better at this.

 

[itwillhappen]

This is no different for leaders. The idea that leaders have better musicality and understanding of the music is wild . . . My real-world experience is that followers generally do better at this.

That's a sexist point of view - but yes, I would agree.
Even then it remains a challenge to lead musically.
And even then the question remains for the women whether they really want to let their men know. I have the vague feeling that in my environment the male leaders who dance at least somewhat musically are well looked after. Finally it's of no use, one thoughtless remark and the women can dance together in the future.

 

[JournalInTime]

That's a sexist point of view - but yes, I would agree.

Not sure how it can be sexist when it doesn't mention the sex of anyone. I said "leaders" and "followers." I didn't imply "men" and "women."

My experience is that people who listen for a signal to move and then interpret it ("followers") generally need a better feel for the music than people who do the signaling ("leaders"). This might be an artifact of how I was taught and how the people I prefer to dance with were taught:

I was taught that leaders should flow their steps together into a single respiration with a clear beginning, middle, and end, but not worry about the intermediate steps individually – as long as they keep the follower in front of them and comfortably embraced, they will be followed correctly. In particular, leaders should not be using hard or sharp steps in some effort to get their follower to hit notes and accents; if they want to hit those things themselves, they can, but it should be "silent" to the follower. Thus, leaders mainly need to understand the music's big picture – where measures and phrases start and finish – so that they can flow smoothly from point of repair to point of repair (a nice side effect of which is being strongly encouraged to move constantly forward and avoid the temptation to park in place or take back steps).

Followers I know who were taught that way – the people with whom I prefer to dance – don't expect to feel their leader step. They expect to feel the general flow of the dance through their leader. Their own stepping comes from interpreting how to walk from point of repair to point of repair in the context of the music. Thus, followers need to understand the micro-phrasing of the music so that they know where to put things like the pivots at the corners of turns, and when they can triple a step or toss in an adorno. In practice, this means they have to be aware of more musical detail than leaders.

The "leader steps here [so the] follower steps here" philosophy is a valid teaching technique but not such a great dancing technique. Best practices are that the leader flows from here to there, very optionally marking individual notes or whatever for themselves only, while the follower steps as the music inspires them, in a way that keeps them in front of and in the frame of the leader.

(I should add that some flow from A to B organically generates accent leads. If my flow terminates or reverses sharply at a break in the phrasing, it'll create a boleo (or whatever). Interestingly, this puts the "natural" spots for such accents at measure and phrase boundaries, not on accented notes mid-measure or mid-phrase.)

But all of this is true whatever the sex of the leader and follower. It isn't about sex. It's about role.

 

[opendoor]

..Followers mostly want to dance and not all of them understand musicality or have a deep feeling for the music...

I can't confirm that. Almost all followers I've danced with in my tango life had a very strong sense of music and musicality. I therefore suspect that you cannot grasp the level of musicality of followers.

..So, it's better than sitting.

I can confirm that.

 

[itwillhappen]

I can't confirm that. Almost all followers I've danced with in my tango life had a very strong sense of music and musicality. I therefore suspect that you cannot grasp the level of musicality of followers.

Maybe you are oversensitive because something like this disturbs you when you lead?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Followers I know who were taught that way – the people with whom I prefer to dance – don't expect to feel their leader step.

Interesting. Just the opposite of how I was taught (by teachers of both sexes). They wanted a defined step and waited for you to take it (or felt you taking it).

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I can't confirm that. Almost all followers I've danced with in my tango life had a very strong sense of music and musicality. I therefore suspect that you cannot grasp the level of musicality of followers.

Well, perhaps our experiences differ. I didn't say all of them, I was specifically referring to those who dance regularly with leaders who lack musicality. Perhaps it's just not that important to them?

 

[Bailango]

I can't confirm that. Almost all followers I've danced with in my tango life had a very strong sense of music and musicality. I therefore suspect that you cannot grasp the level of musicality of followers.

I can confirm that.

My experience is opposite. With both the leaders and followers. May be you get to dance with much better followers than I do

 

[Bailango]

Followers I know who were taught that way – the people with whom I prefer to dance – don't expect to feel their leader step.

I agree with the rest of your post but not sure how to parse it. Something is getting lost in translation.

To me personally my lead should be such that a follower should have enough time to know or sense where I am going next (often called projection). It could be forward, backward, side, double time, syncopated, etc. It is not one thing I do, everything is involved from my torso, frame, to how I step or pause. I don’t use only one walking or stepping technqiue. I know I am able to provide extreme clarity of my movement and the follower can then choose to respond with her movement. Clarity of my movement doesn’t mean follower doesn’t have options. She does and it is upto her and I will follow through with whichever option she selects. If I am going to take a quick or short step or a long step and change my mind half way through it or halt/change most followers will not fall back (if it was back step for them). Therefore I think follower can clearly feel my momentum and direction and therefore where my step would end up. But my stepping is not a discrete function. It is a continuous function

 

[opendoor]

...May be you get to dance with much better followers than I do

I think that's unlikely. I would rather think that the followers you're talking about have stopped coming up with their own interpretation.

Maybe you are oversensitive because something like this disturbs you when you lead?

You've nailed it! When I dance (and actually love the piece of music) I project my movements. Projection (commencement) is a kind of remote control of the follower. So it irritates me immensely when unwanted impulses come from the continuum of my (thought) "own" body. In another thread about lead-follow technique I once received the comment "that's kind of dictatorial". Was that you?

 

[Bailango]

I think that's unlikely. I would rather think that the followers you're talking about have stopped coming up with their own interpretation.

Rather never started