Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

ArbeeNYC said:
I think you can learn to analyze the music of different orchestras if you're patient and have the time. For the dancer that doesn't have to be too complex but it takes time and a lot of listening. And you need a method...
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I am different, I don't need a method. I hear a piece of music and immediately classify it as good or bad. And what is good is always what I like. All of this is completely intuitive. If I sit down and analyse the pieces of music according to formal criteria, I come to the same results, it just takes a lot longer.
 
opendoor said:
I am different, I don't need a method. I hear a piece of music and immediately classify it as good or bad. And what is good is always what I like. All of this is completely intuitive. If I sit down and analyse the pieces of music according to formal criteria, I come to the same results, it just takes a lot longer.
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Same here! Plus I don’t think I have patience or time to do all the analysis. Then it feels more like work than fun.
 
opendoor said:
I am different, I don't need a method. I hear a piece of music and immediately classify it as good or bad. And what is good is always what I like. All of this is completely intuitive. If I sit down and analyse the pieces of music according to formal criteria, I come to the same results, it just takes a lot longer.
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Bailango said:
Same here! Plus I don’t think I have patience or time to do all the analysis. Then it feels more like work than fun.
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Same. I think "musicality classes" and methods don't teach actual musicality. They teach the tools to grow your own musicality, which is the only way to have musicality. If you already have that, skip the lessons on how to develop it and focus on, say, embrace, floorcraft, or posture, which are far more learnable.
 
opendoor said:
I am different, I don't need a method. I hear a piece of music and immediately classify it as good or bad. And what is good is always what I like. All of this is completely intuitive. If I sit down and analyse the pieces of music according to formal criteria, I come to the same results, it just takes a lot longer.
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Fine but that has nothing to do with analyzing a piece of music so you can interpret it on the dance floor in a way that reflects its musical structure. I have my likes and dislikes as well. Everyone does.
 
JournalInTime said:
Same. I think "musicality classes" and methods don't teach actual musicality. They teach the tools to grow your own musicality, which is the only way to have musicality. If you already have that, skip the lessons on how to develop it and focus on, say, embrace, floorcraft, or posture, which are far more learnable.
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It helps to know what you're dancing to in the music. Where the beats fall, syncopation, melodic phrasing. It all adds up.
 
ArbeeNYC said:
It helps to know what you're dancing to in the music. Where the beats fall, syncopation, melodic phrasing. It all adds up.
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You need to know where to start - the basics. What you describe is probably most of what some 'musicality' workshop might give. The other parts might be how you might interpret in dance what you now have the concepts to recognise. You have the words to describe it, or the 'tools'. But then it's up to you to listen and apply.
 
ArbeeNYC said:
It helps to know what you're dancing to in the music. Where the beats fall, syncopation, melodic phrasing. It all adds up.
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Here's the trouble with lessons where that is concerned: I have taken a lot of them. A lot. Some with people who are very well-known and who earn their living teaching mostly that. I will not name names because I don't want to do any harm, but you can probably guess a few . . . if they come to Montréal, they surely come to NYC.

In all of these lessons, they just assume that people know what beat, rhythm, and melody are. What a time signature is. What strong and weak counts are. What phrases are. They speak the language of music theory, not dance for people who've never had a music class in their life.

Me, I was forced to learn that stuff at school. Due to the era when I went to school, the school I went to, and several other factors, it was taught. I didn't particularly have a gift for it, but I remember the terminology.

Most people are just as clueless at the end of musicality seminars as they were at the start. That is because the terminology simply isn't necessary for dancers. They can be musical intuitively without ever knowing what it is they're dancing on in formal terms.

What these people need isn't musicality as it's taught, but something closer to "Do what you like, but make sure it fits something in the tune." As it happens, one teacher I had did that. People got it. I think that's what might be missing.
 
JournalInTime said:
Most people are just as clueless at the end of musicality seminars as they were at the start. That is because the terminology simply isn't necessary for dancers. They can be musical intuitively without ever knowing what it is they're dancing on in formal terms.

What these people need isn't musicality as it's taught, but something closer to "Do what you like, but make sure it fits something in the tune." As it happens, one teacher I had did that. People got it. I think that's what might be missing.
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You may be right. I have trouble with purely analytical approaches to musicality; I've never had much patience for it. (When I was in high school I even took a music class and practiced piano for a couple of years. But that was a long time ago.)

Do what you like, to me implies that we can personalize the dance--which we should all do. But it's nice to know that, as you say, "it fits the tune." Because I see a hell of a lot of people bouncing around or doing the exact same thing to very different tangos. How do we "untrain" people in that case? How do we train them to not to do that from the beginning? Not everyone is equally intuitive. And too many people simply do not LISTEN.
 
Brummbaer said:
You need to know where to start - the basics. What you describe is probably most of what some 'musicality' workshop might give. The other parts might be how you might interpret in dance what you now have the concepts to recognise. You have the words to describe it, or the 'tools'. But then it's up to you to listen and apply.
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You need something to start with. And then, it's up to you to personalize the dance--but make it fit the parameters of the song.
 
pianistamediano said:
Most of the leaders like that don't feel a need to be actually musical because they get enough dances. Followers should have way higher standards if not for the imbalance.
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Sad but true.

I went to our roughly quarterly AT "ball" last night (technically not a milonga, but an actual ball in a kind of ballroom, with a thematic dress code) and danced for most of 6 hours. I spent most of the time that wasn't the first 30 minutes before it filled up and the final hour after it had emptied out dancing behind, in front of, and next to leaders who were taking heavy, slamming steps that marked SLOW SLOW QUICK QUICK SLOW. All night. It's the most boring thing imaginable, and yet . . . these leaders danced all night, while followers were sitting.

Smooth flow with the melody, without a focus not on steps but on constant, dynamic movement (not always advancing . . . even pauses should be dynamic suspensions, not dead stops) was hard to find. But no matter, because followers were getting desperate enough to accept invitations from step-stop-step-stop guys just kind of shuffling to the beat with the occasional QQ.
 
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